My most wanted list, anything more to add?

[Bob]

<span style="font-size: 9pt; color: black; font-family: 'Verdana','sans-serif';"]Jon, Colin &amp; Peety3,<o></o>


<span style="font-size: 9pt; color: black; font-family: 'Verdana','sans-serif';"]You all are zeroing in on my point. <o></o>


<span style="font-size: 9pt; color: black; font-family: 'Verdana','sans-serif';"]Body cost are the same/very closebetween the 1D and 1Ds - $5K Vs $8K.<o></o>


<span style="font-size: 9pt; color: black; font-family: 'Verdana','sans-serif';"]The 5D2 is using a similar 21mp ff sensor, assume that it is the next generation of the 1Ds sensor, and then using the 50d vs. the 5D2 delta of $1,300 would be a good approx of the sensor'scost.<o></o>


<span style="font-size: 9pt; color: black; font-family: 'Verdana','sans-serif';"]If manufacturing is using similar sensor across different bodies then thevolume differences would be small between models.<o></o>


<span style="font-size: 9pt; color: black; font-family: 'Verdana','sans-serif';"]So the 1Ds is over priced by about $1,500. i.e. the sensor is not driving the cost of the 1Ds just charge what you can to make more profit.

[Colin]

Sounds reasonable.


So, when the 1Ds MkIV comes out, maybe the 1Ds will sell for a fair price? []


I like the idea of a 21 MP full frame 1D mk IV camera for $3,599 too []

[alexniedra]

Man, it would be nice to know the prices of the next 1D(s) Mark IV cameras. I can assure you they will totally raise the bar in industry once again.


BUT, don't count on any MSRP, because there are so many things that determine the price of the camera. I'm sure Canon will market the camera effectively, and given the trend of the 5D cameras, where the Mark II had a lower MSRP than the first 5D when it first came out, we can expect a (slightly) lower MSRP for the 1D and 1Ds Mark IV cameras.


About sensor sizes, I'm 95% sure that Canon will keep the 1D - not 1Ds - cameras with a 1.3x crop factor. Sports photographers, photojournalists, the list goes on - Really get their extra "reach" with this cropped frame sensor, but still maintain good wide angle advantages. The 10 MP of the Mark III were there for a reason - to get 10 fps. With a new DiGiC pecessor and a deeper buffer, I think Canon could easily up the megapixel count, but not up to 21.1 MP and still maintain 10fps shooting.

[Benjamin]

They have, it is called a 1Ds, otherwise the 1D and the 1Ds would be redundant.
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Two FF pro bodies are certainly not redundant. They differ by having different resolution, different speed, differentHi-ISO performanceanddifferent price tag, just like what Nikon did with their D3 and D3x. They are both FF but they focus on completely different things. I personally will buy the 1D IV if it's FF (hopefully 16mp or more)with 10fps; however, the cost of a 1Ds III/IV will remain to be hard for me to justify for quite some time.


I'm also not sure if you can really say that the 1Ds III is over priced by $1500. IMO, Canon will make their 1Ds line as good as they know how to make -- and that will cost a lot of extra money, not to mention those enhancement and updates over the 1D III. I guess when it comes to 1Ds the price doesn't go proportional to its quality anymore... Nikon now has done the same or even more with their D3x, but I think it's worth the money if you pursuit the ultimate.


Canon's certainly heading towards FF on most of their bodies but I don't think (Neither Canon) that they're going to implement FF on ALL their bodies even any time soon. The 50D does have it's advantage of being reasonably fast and good handling at a very reasonable price. TheXSi is currently on sale for just $550 in Canada. I doubt anything FF (even in the foreseeable future) can match this price. Current the Rebel + xD line brings Canon 80% of the sale number, I don't see a point why they should worry about FF revolution as much as bring price down on current models. For example, to introduce anew 60D (or whatever it's going to be called) @ $800 or make thenext genRebelfor only $500 (althoughthese won't likely to happen) makes a lot more sense than making a cheap FF for $1800. Plus 1.6x sensors do have their advantage of resolving more detail and auto zooming your lens by 1.6x


Ben

[Bob]

<span style="font-size: 9pt; color: black; font-family: 'Verdana','sans-serif';"]Crop factor is not a driver, cost is - you can crop any ff image to any factor you want and simulate a telephoto lens of any length to a point. The number and size of pixels and sensor dimensions affects the yield of the sensor in manufacturing, driving cost up or down. As time goes on the yields will continue to increase, allowing larger sensors with more pixels at a lower cost to be made &ndash; as we have seen with all microelectronics. As pixels get smaller the laws of physics limit how small the pixel can get because of noise. So, noise will limit the final size of the pixel, and camera trends will be driven to have larger sensors.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"] <o></o>


<span style="font-size: 9pt; color: black; font-family: 'Verdana','sans-serif';"]As far as frame rate is concerned, the sensor electronics will get faster and faster until frame rate is not a factor any more.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"] How many frames/sec will a sports photographer want?<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"] A video camera can shoot 24 and more frames per second, so the still camera at 20 frames per second would seem to be a reasonable limit; otherwise the HD-video camera would be the next step. The smaller non-ff sensor will not be the driver for frame rate in the future.<o></o>


<span style="font-size: 9pt; color: black; font-family: 'Verdana','sans-serif';"]Given the above, the number of different SLR camera bodies will be reduced, increasing each model&rsquo;s volume, driving down their cost.<o></o>

[HiFiGuy1]

It just occurred to me that Canon could put an "APS" button on its FF cameras. Kind of a virtual sensor resizer. How cool would it be to have a button on a 1Ds Mark IV or 5D Mark III that would allow the sensor to crop and resize the image so that the viewfinder was full all the time. The frame rate could be increased, too. If a camera was comfortably a 6 fps at FF, then it could be almost 10 fps at APS-C. If you wanted an APS-H perspective instead, just press the button!


I think Nikon does this now with one of their cameras which has two settings, but it seems like maybe it works by not utilizing sensors in a pattern across the whole sensor. Wouldn't it be neat to have all three settings available on one camera? Just think, then a 70-200 lens would extend its effective range all the way out to 320 with no negative effect on the optics. It would still be an actual 70mm on the short end using FF, of course, which makes it even more versatile.


I don't think this would be technically difficult or expensive to implement, either.

[Benjamin]

Agree, I think both Nikon D3 and D700 do this if I remember correctly. It's a cool feature to have but not sure if Canon will actually do it. I personally don't see a point to mount APS-C lenses on FF asCanon doesn't have anygood EF-S optics to begin with. (don't flame me with the 17-55/2.8, I will go 24-70/2.8L on FF...[])

[alexniedra]

I believe Nikon has already done this. Why Canon hasn't followed is beyond me. This would increase photographic possibilities dramatically. And with resolution at &gt;21 MP, quality of 1.6x and 1.3x "crops" would still have great resolution: 13 and 16 MP respectively! This is what the 1D cameras and as well the 5D need to bring full frame shooting to the next level.


One Downside: Canon's extender sales would plumet []

[alexniedra]

Hold on.. I don't think his plan involves mounting EF-S lenses on FF bodies. His idea was to have a control that automatically crops the field of view on a FF body to 1.3x or 1.6x.

[Benjamin]

Hold on.. I don't think his plan involves mounting EF-S lenses on FF bodies. His idea was to have a control that automatically crops the field of view on a FF body to 1.3x or 1.6x.
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Ahh, see... It was my bad.With EF-S factor removedthen I'll raise both of my hands and feet to agree on cropping![]