portable lighting kit on a budget, sigma vs canon speedlites, pocket wizards etc...

[Sean Setters]

To Jayson-


By and large, most radio flash triggering solutions only transmit one command, "FIRE!!" You have to adjust the flash power manually (either by adjusting the output of the flash, or by adjusting the distance of the flash to the subject). It takes some getting used to, but it works great once you get the hang of it.


The new PocketWizard Flex units will transmit ETTL data so that you can adjust your flash units from a master flash on your camera. That said, the earliest reports indicate that PocketWizards somewhat rushed the product to the market before fully testing them. The reliability and range of the units seem to be very "un-PocketWizards-like." The RadioPopper PX system transmits the ETTL data as well, and they have quite a loyal following. The only complaints with RadioPopper PX units usually focus on the mounting (the receiver units must be mounted to the flash in order to work properly). RadioPoppers are going to address that issue soon enough when they release a bracket mount that will make the standard issue velcro a thing of the past.


Now, the biggest problem with using the new PocketWizard Flex and RadioPopper PX units is that they require you to buy expensive flashes. For the price of one 580EX II, I can buy 3 cheaper flashes that don't have ETTL capabilities.

[Sean Setters]

To Jayson-


By and large, most radio flash triggering solutions only transmit one command, "FIRE!!" You have to adjust the flash power manually (either by adjusting the output of the flash, or by adjusting the distance of the flash to the subject). It takes some getting used to, but it works great once you get the hang of it.


The new PocketWizard Flex units will transmit ETTL data so that you can adjust your flash units from a master flash on your camera. That said, the earliest reports indicate that PocketWizards somewhat rushed the product to the market before fully testing them. The reliability and range of the units seem to be very "un-PocketWizards-like." The RadioPopper PX system transmits the ETTL data as well, and they have quite a loyal following. The only complaints with RadioPopper PX units usually focus on the mounting (the receiver units must be mounted to the flash in order to work properly). RadioPoppers are going to address that issue soon enough when they release a bracket mount that will make the standard issue velcro a thing of the past.


Now, the biggest problem with using the new PocketWizard Flex and RadioPopper PX units is that they require you to buy expensive flashes. For the price of one 580EX II, I can buy 3 cheaper flashes that don't have ETTL capabilities.

[Rodger]

I know almost nothing about remote flash photography and I don't mean to change the subject of this thread but what is the difference between TTL and ETTL flash capabilities?


From what I gather, ETTL allows you to change the flash settings like power, from the camera, while TTL does not.

[George Slusher]

Preliminary note: prices shown are from the B&H site where possible. You may be able to find the gear cheaper elsewhere, especially used gear on eBay, but using B&H gives a "standard" price.


You should check out the Strobist site, as it's all about this topic. (Look for the "Lighting 101 Archive" pop-up on the right side.) Their usual recommendations would not include any ETTL flash--Canon or Sigma, as they aren't all that well-suited for simple remote use, especially on a budget, unless your "budget" is well over $1000 (as much as $2000!) versus $400-500. With either the Canon 580EX II ($420) or the Sigma 530 DG Super ($219)--do NOT get the "ST" version, you have three options:


1. Use Canon's "wireless" system (infrared). This can work IF

• The flashes are fairly close to each other/
  
• It's indoors. (They do not work very well outdoors, unless they are pretty close and directly face the transmitter.)
  
• The flash sensors can see each other directly (line of sight)
• You have compatible flashes.

If you want to use BOTH flashes off the camera, you'll also need the Canon ST-E2 transmitter ($220). The Sigma flashes will "work" with the ST-E2, but not fully: setting "ratios" from the ST-E2 may not work well.


Total cost: 2 @ $420 + $220 = $1060 (not including stands, umbrellas, etc.)


2. Use them with expensive TTL "relays" like the Radio Popper or the new Pocket Wizard devices. That gets rid of the line of sight issues at the expense of, well, EXPENSE. (Also, the Pocket Wizards, at least, may not work well with Sigma flashes.) The Pocket Wizards would cost $199 (MiniTT1 transmitter for the camera) + 2 @ $219 (FlexTT5 for the flashes) = $637 plus the two flashes ($840), or $1477. (You could get a new camera for that!) The RadioPoppers are more expensive--$249 for the transmitter and receivers, for $747 plus the two flashes ($840), or $1587.


3. Use them with off-camera triggers, whether the Cactus-type (or the even-cheaper systems you can find on eBay) or the more capable (much longer-range, more reliable) types like the Pocket Wizards. However, in that case, why would you use Canon flashes? You'll pay hundreds of dollars for the E-TTL capabilities, only to not use them. Sounds rather silly to me. (Side note: E-TTL is Canon's terminology for the system used by modern cameras, including almost all digital SLRs and top-end Point-and-Shoot cameras. E-TTL II is a further refinement. TTL referred to the system used by older film cameras.)


Cost (max), using Pocket Wizards: 2 @ $420 (Canon 580EX II) + 3 @ $159 (PWs--you need one for the camera) = $1317.


Cost using Sigma flashes & the Chinese triggers I bought: 2 @ $219 + $25 (transmitter + receiver) + $18 (receiver) = $481. (You might also want to get hot shoe adapters for the umbrella brackets, rather than mounting the Sigma flashes on the receivers, which is NOT very sturdy. The Sigma flashes don't have PC connectors, I believe.)


Again, those costs don't include the hardware (stands, umbrellas, umbrella brackets, etc).


Instead, the "Strobist" methodology uses simple, inexpensive non-dedicated flashes that have variable output settings in a "manual" or "preset" mode. The usual suspect is the Vivitar 285HV ($89.95 at B&H, but you can get used flashes for less on eBay: I paid $64 & $71, including shipping), which has a guide number of 120 ft at 35mm & ISO 100 (vs 118 ft for the Canon 580EX II at 35mm--yes, you'll see it listed as 190 ft, but that is with the flash zoomed to 105mm, and 115 ft for the Sigma at 35mm). The 285HV zooms (28-105mm) but does not swivel. You don't need them to swivel, as you can turn the stands any way you need to.


Cost using 285HV flashes & the Chinese triggers I bought: 2 @ $90 + $25 (transmitter + receiver) + $18 (receiver) = $223. (It would be $657 with Pocket Wizards.)


You can also use cables, rather than radio triggers, to connect the camera to the flashes--check the Strobist site for ideas. (The most useful is the "household" system that uses regular household extension cords.) That really doesn't save any money compared to the cheap radio triggers, but it is a lot more reliable, if less flexible.


You'll also need lightstands, umbrellas, and umbrella mounts (swivels), which can vary a great deal in cost. (I paid $42.50 + SH for a Giottos 8' Air-Cushioned stand (36" closed, 8 ft tall, max load 13.2 lbs). I bought it because it has a VERY wide "footprint"--over 50" vs 30-36" for most light stands, so it will be more stable outdoors, where I'll be using it.) If you want ultra-portable gear, you'll have to pay a bit more for the stands, like the Bogen/Manfrotto 001B "Nano" stand (19" closed, 6 ft tall, max load 4 lbs) for $56.50 or, if you can accept a bit longer but want a sturdier stand, the Bogen/Manfrotto 305B Mini-Stacker Light Stand (25.2" closed, 7 ft tall, max load 9 lbs) for $75. You'll also want the collapsible umbrellas by Westcott--prices vary by the size and type (white satin, silver, etc), plus umbrella swivels (the Impact bracket at B&H is pretty good for $14).


So, here's a sample set-up for you, if you want to go ultra-portable--batteries not included! It would all fit into many gym bags:

• 2 Vivitar 285HV flashes @ $90 = $180
• 2 Bogen/Manfrotto 001B Nano light stands @ $56.50 = $113
• Chinese radio triggers as above @ $25 + $18 = $43
• 2 Impact umbrella brackets @ $14 = $28
• 2 Westcott collapsible umbrellas, white satin (shoot through or reflect) @ $19.50 = $39 (another option would be their white umbrella with removable black cover, which works a bit better as a reflector--these are $25 each)
  
• 2 Westcott collapsible umbrellas, soft silver @ $19.50 = $39

The total would be $442, plus shipping; with only the white umbrellas, it would be $403. Notice that's about what ONE Canon 580EX II flash costs. You can substitute the somewhat-more-expensive Cactus triggers, Pocket Wizards, etc., as you wish. (I would suggest mounting the flash directly on the umbrella bracket, rather than on the receiver, and using the cable that comes with the flash to connect to the PC connector on the receiver.)


Another source is Midwest Photo Exchange, which sells components and complete kits. For example, they have a "Starving Students" 2-light kit for $439 that includes:

• 2 LumoPro LP120 flash (a bit more expensive than the Vivitar 285HV, but it swivels and has more flash power options)
• 2 Interfit 7.5 ft air-cushioned light stands (27" folded, max load 8.5 lbs from B&H site)
• 2 LumoPro umbrella swivels
• 2 Westcott 43" collapsible umbrellas, white satin
• Strobist Rosco Color Effects Gel Pack (put the gels over the flashes to get various color effects; there are other sources)
  
• Strobist Rosco Color Correction Gel Pack (used to correct flashes to match ambient light that isn't daylight--tungsten, fluorescent, etc)
• Bongo ties (you can also get longer "ball bungee cords" at WalMart, etc.)
• Gaffer's tape (always useful to have around!)
• Cactus V2s trigger set (transmitter & one receiver--you'll need another for $25)
• Rosco DIY kit (see the site)

That's a good deal if ultra-portability isn't that important to you. (27" folded is still fairly small, less than many tripods with heads.)


Of course, you can get a lot more doo-dads and gadgets, but these will handle a lot of situations. If you do a lot of flash shooting, you might consider getting USED Quantum turbo batteries and the appropriate cables. (I said "USED" because they are gadawful expensive new--$400+, but under $200 on eBay. (If the cell needs to be replaced, Quantum can do it or you can buy a cell and replace it.) Lumedyne also makes external batteries.


OK, having gone through all that, I would recommend that you get ONE E-TTL flash, not for remote use, but for on-camera (or on a bracket with the Canon Off-Camera Cord 3 for $70--don't get the el cheapo cords). They are very convenient and versatile in that mode. I started with a Sigma 500 DG Super flash (earlier model), then the off-camera cord and brackets, then I got a 580EX (previous model)--all on eBay (Sigma = $168, 580EX = $285, cord = $68, including shipping). Then, get the Strobist kit (or equivalent) for about the same price as another 580EX II.

[johnker]

George, your post was much appreciated. Great insight for me as my goal was so hit around $500-$700 for the set up. Thanks to all who posted I have learned so much researching the links, now it's time to sit on eBay for a while. Kijiji is amazing too although I find they never have flashes.

[Sean Setters]

I'd suggest looking for used flashes on ebay...but I wouldn't necessarily recommend buying other items (like light stands/umbrellas/etc) off of ebay. Alot of accessories like that for sale on ebay are very cheaply made and don't hold up as well as the more well-known brands. MPEX's house brand, LumoPro, is a good choice for a budget brand. I probably have a dozen LumoPro items and have been happy with all of them. The LumoPro LP606 is probably the best lightstand you can get for the money. They sent me two of them by mistake (I had ordered the LP604), but I loved them so much I kept them. I ordered a third one a few months ago. They see much more use than my Manfrotto 5001b nano lightstand, which costs substantially more.

[George Slusher]

I'd suggest looking for used flashes on ebay...but I wouldn't necessarily recommend buying other items (like light stands/umbrellas/etc) off of ebay. Alot of accessories like that for sale on ebay are very cheaply made and don't hold up as well as the more well-known brands.
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I agree. I bought one umbrella on eBay, but it was a Westcott collapsible white satin. I bought another like it plus two Photoflex hot silver adjustable frame umbrellas, plus one Giottos stand (I already had a Dynatran stand from Amvona--not as nice, but also heavy duty with a wide footprint) and umbrella brackets from B&amp;H. I got the Photoflex because I read some rather negative reviews of the Westcott soft silver umbrellas. I probably would have gotten Photoflex white umbrellas with removable covers except that I already had that Westcott umbrella. Eventually, I may get the smaller/lighter stands and collapsible silver umbrellas.


I checked MPEX before I bought from B&amp;H. Their prices were about the same--maybe a little bit higher, but their shipping was much higher. Also, I couldn't get the information I needed about their light stands, i.e., footprint. My first major use of the stands will be to take photos of the top winners at our 4-H Fair Horse Show in July. That will be outdoors and the stands will probably be on pavement. (I'm going to go to the Strobist site and ask for advice on where I should place the remote strobes and about using on-camera flash with the remotes.) The wide footprint (plus sandbags!) will help keep the stands stable, though, if we get much wind, I can take the umbrellas off and use turn the flashes around to face the subject. It won't be as good, but should be better than on-camera flash, alone.

[devsalvi]

Thanks George. That confirms my recent buys





Dev

[George Slusher]

Thanks George. That confirms my recent buys

I'm not sure how, as it seems that you bought two 580EX II flashes and the ST-E2 transmitter. [:P] That's rather the antithesis of the "strobist" mode I was describing. However, I also have two ETTL flashes (580EX &amp; Sigma 500 DG Super) and the ST-E2, myself, so I'm no one to talk. [:$] I also recently "upgraded" from the Super-Duper DP-8 radio triggers from jiakgong to Pocket Wizard Plus II transceivers. (Well, I have one transceiver in hand; two more are on the way. I paid $150.50 (unopened box), 135.50 &amp; 130.50, including shipping, versus $159 each at B&amp;H.)


It will be interesting to hear how your setup works out. The 580EX II + ST-E2 system has a lot of advantages (a bit simpler to set up, for example--just turn on the "slave" mode on the flashes, essentially), if it works. The problem I have is that it doesn't work outdoors very well, if at all. Indoors, where the signal can bounce off walls, it purportedly works a lot better. The main problem with the Strobist mode is that the flashes are in manual mode, so, if you move a light stand, you may have to reset the power output of the flash (or use a neutral density filter). When using two lights, that can be challenging. (I have a simple Shepherd/Polaris SPD100 digital light meter that reads flash, as well as incident and reflected light, which can help get the flashes in the right ballpark, at least. That was yet another eBay purchase--$112.50 vs $179.95.)


On the other hand, part of the strobist "credo" is to experiment. Sometimes, "mistakes" turn out to be better than our original intention. Many moons ago (about 1979), I took a photo of a friend riding her Morgan gelding. The riding arena was on top (literally!) of a good-sized hill south of Los Angeles. (Palos Verdes, specifically Portuguese Bend, for those who know the area.) From the "drop-off" side of arena, we could see Catalina Island. (I've also seen waterspouts!) I was on the other side, so she and the horse were against the bright sky. Not thinking, I just matched the needle with my Nikon FM (FM = manual everything!)--can't recall the lens I used, probably 50mm or so. Of course, as she was backlit, the sky appears bright but she and the horse were silhouetted. It looked pretty neat--so neat, in fact, that several other people had me do similar shots of them. (One was a rather gorgeous blond who wanted her hair blowing in the wind. It took a lot of trials, but I got the shot.)

[devsalvi]

1. Use Canon's "wireless" system (infrared). This can work IF

• The flashes are fairly close to each other/
  
• It's indoors. (They do not work very well outdoors, unless they are pretty close and directly face the transmitter.)
  
• The flash sensors can see each other directly (line of sight)
• You have compatible flashes.

If you want to use BOTH flashes off the camera, you'll also need the Canon ST-E2 transmitter ($220). The Sigma flashes will "work" with the ST-E2, but not fully: setting "ratios" from the ST-E2 may not work well.
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Hi George,


This is what i was referring to. I had started to think that i have wasted a lot of money and was actually feeling kinda stupid But i guess i can work with two 580exII. The setup i have in mind was to fire two external flashes from either side of the subject. But the more I think about it, the ST-E2 seems to be a mistake. I will see if i can make it work or i will be selling it soon on Ebay In my very own hasty way, i overlooked that i could use one of the 580s to trigger the other one. Its the urge to get "that thing" which has to be controlled!





Thanks,


Dev