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  1. #1
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    Re: Which lens?



    Quote Originally Posted by wimpy
    I recently bought a 500D/T1I with the standard 18-55mm lens, then later purchased a 50mm f/1.8. I'm very happy with both of these purchases, Although i find that the kit lens now spends a lot of time in my bag.

    Excellent!


    Quote Originally Posted by wimpy
    if i was going to buy either of the other 2 lenses i would also by some extenders to give me some degree of macro capability.

    Since it sounds like you will get a lot of use out of macro, and you're comfortable using prime lenses, so I suggest you go for a dedicated macro lens. I prefer the EF-S 60mm f/2.8, which is more inexpensive, but the 100 is excellent.


    Quote Originally Posted by wimpy
    The question is, Would the 24-105mm or the 17-55mm prove to be vastly more useful than the 18-55mm kit lens?

    The 24-105 is in a whole different category than the kit lens, because on your camera it's a "normal to full telephoto" zoom, whereas the kit lens and 17-55 are "wide angle to short telephoto" zooms. For me, the 17-55 is a more useful range, but some don't ever shoot wide angle.


    The 17-55 has the advantage of a fast f/2.8 f-number: that is very different from the f/4 on the 24-105, but it's worlds apart from the f/5.6 on the kit lens. Furthermore, the image quality is fantastic, especially for a zoom. be Not to mention the fact that in the range where they overlap (24-55), the 17-55 has far superior image quality (almost as good as the 50mm f/1.8, and even better in some ways). But even with all that, I can't say if either lens will be vastly more useful than your kit lens, because it just might not be the focal length you want to shoot.


    Personally, I have a Tamron 17-50 f/2.8, because the I.S. and other features of the Canon 17-55 was not important enough to me to spend the extra $600, and the Tamron is every bit as sharp.


    Quote Originally Posted by wimpy
    Would i be better off saving my money and going for the macro lens and perhaps looking at a telephoto in the future?

    Most folks use a "normal" zoom like the 17-55 or 18-55 for a lot of their photography, but everyone is different, and so far your kit lens has stayed in the bag. A telephoto lens is pretty important for me, personally, so I would want to have something, even if it was more inexpensive to use while I'm saving up. The Sigma 70-300 APO MACRO is the cheapest option, but the Canon 70-300 IS makes a great value if you can afford it.


    Quote Originally Posted by wimpy


    I realize the answer to these questions will vary from person to person but as i have never used any of these lenses and many of you have, I would greatly appreciate your views.


    Something you might consider is to rent a lens for a week and try it out. I used to get rentals from the local photography place for hundreds of dollars, but now I do lensrentals.com for less than a third of the price. Great way to try things out without committing to a purchase.


    Have fun with your new gear!

  2. #2
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    Re: Which lens?



    Thanks Daniel, very helpful advice. So in your opinion having a dedicated macro lens is a better option than having a set of extenders and a possibly more versatile lens such as either of the 70-300mm telephotos mentioned? I guess rather than stretching to afford the 24-105 i might be better off with a mid range macro and telephoto, each being roughly half the 24-105's price, and covering a larger combined focal length.


    Renting lenses is something i have considered, but I'm yet to try. It's a shame I'm not in the US because that link your provided looks very good.





    Cheers, Al






  3. #3
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    Re: Which lens?



    Quote Originally Posted by wimpy
    I guess rather than stretching to afford the
    24-105 i might be better off with a mid range macro and telephoto, each
    being roughly half the 24-105's price, and covering a larger combined
    focal length.

    Yes, IMHO. Particularly since the quality/ease of use will be better than a 24-105 with tubes.


    Quote Originally Posted by clemmb
    Daniel Browningsaid "the 17-55
    has far superior image quality " I disagree. Check Brayan's ISO
    12233 Chart 100% Crop Comparison. The 24-105 is much sharper than the
    17-55.

    Different bodies
    cannot be compared, just as it says in the instructions:


    Quote Originally Posted by [url="http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Help/ISO-12233.aspx
    About ISO 12233 Chart Data and Sample Images[/url]]
    Lenses should be compared to each other only with test data from the same camera body.

    That's from this page: About ISO 12233 Chart Data and Sample Images


    There are too many differences between bodies: entirely
    different spatial frequencies, the framing is different, and even the chart itself may be different.

  4. #4
    Senior Member clemmb's Avatar
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    Re: Which lens?

    <p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"]<i style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal;"]<span style="font-size: 6.5pt; color: black; font-family: Verdana;"]<v:shapetype coordsize="21600,21600" o:spt="75" oreferrelative="t" path="m@4@5l@4@11@9@11@9@5xe" filled="f" stroked="f" id="_x0000_t75"]<v:stroke joinstyle="miter"]</v:stroke><v:formulas><v:f eqn="if lineDrawn pixelLineWidth 0"]</v:f><v:f eqn="sum @0 1 0"]</v:f><v:f eqn="sum 0 0 @1"]</v:f><v:f eqn="prod @2 1 2"]</v:f><v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelWidth"]</v:f><v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelHeight"]</v:f><v:f eqn="sum @0 0 1"]</v:f><v:f eqn="prod @6 1 2"]</v:f><v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelWidth"]</v:f><v:f eqn="sum @8 21600 0"]</v:f><v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelHeight"]</v:f><v:f eqn="sum @10 21600 0"]</v:f></v:formulas><vath o:extrusionok="f" gradientshapeok="t" o:connecttype="rect"]</vath><o:lock v:ext="edit" aspectratio="t"]</o:lock></v:shapetype><v:shape type="#_x0000_t75" style="width: 8.25pt; height: 9.75pt;" id="_x0000_i1025"]<v:imagedata src="file:///C:\DOCUME~1\clemmb\LOCALS~1\Temp\msohtml1\06\clip_ image001.gif" o:href="http://community.the-digital-picture.com/Themes/hawaii/images/icon-quote.gif"]</v:imagedata></v:shape>[/i]<i style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal;"]<span style="font-size: 6.5pt; color: black; font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt;"]clemmb:[/i]<i style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal;"]<span style="font-size: 6.5pt; color: black; font-family: Verdana;"]<o></o>[/i]
    <p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"]<i style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal;"]<span style="font-size: 6.5pt; color: black; font-family: Verdana;"]Daniel Browningsaid "the 17-55 has far superior image quality " I disagree. Check Brayan's ISO 12233 Chart 100% Crop Comparison. The 24-105 is much sharper than the 17-55.<o></o>[/i]
    <p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto;" class="MsoNormal"]<i style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal;"]<span style="font-size: 6.5pt; color: black; font-family: Verdana;"]Different bodies cannot be compared, just as it says in the instructions:<o></o>[/i]
    <p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"]<i style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal;"]<span style="font-size: 6.5pt; color: black; font-family: Verdana;"]<v:shape type="#_x0000_t75" style="width: 8.25pt; height: 9.75pt;" id="_x0000_i1026"]<v:imagedata src="file:///C:\DOCUME~1\clemmb\LOCALS~1\Temp\msohtml1\06\clip_ image001.gif" o:href="http://community.the-digital-picture.com/Themes/hawaii/images/icon-quote.gif"]</v:imagedata></v:shape>[/i][b]<i style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal;"]<span style="font-size: 6.5pt; color: black; font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt;"][url="http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Help/ISO-12233.aspx]About ISO 12233 Chart Data and Sample Images[/url]:[/i][/b]<i style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal;"]<span style="font-size: 6.5pt; color: black; font-family: Verdana;"]<o></o>[/i]
    <p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"]<span style="font-size: 6.5pt; color: black; font-family: Verdana;"]
    <i style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal;"]<span style="font-size: 6.5pt; color: black; font-family: Verdana;"]Lenses should be compared to each other only with test data from the same camera body.<o></o>[/i]
    <p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto;" class="MsoNormal"]<i style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal;"]<span style="font-size: 6.5pt; color: black; font-family: Verdana;"]That's from this page: About ISO 12233 Chart Data and Sample Images<o></o>[/i]
    <p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto;" class="MsoNormal"]<i style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal;"]<span style="font-size: 6.5pt; color: black; font-family: Verdana;"]There are too many differences between bodies: entirely different spatial frequencies, the framing is different, and even the chart itself may be different.<o></o>[/i]
    <p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto;" class="MsoNormal"]<i style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal;"]<span style="font-size: 6.5pt; color: black; font-family: Verdana;"]<o></o>[/i]
    <p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"]<i style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal;"]<span style="font-family: Arial;"]<o><span style="font-size: small;"]</o>[/i]
    <p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"]<span style="font-family: Arial;"]<o><span style="font-size: small;"]I have used both lenses on the same body. I stand by my claim that the 24-105 has better overall IQ but agree it may not be the best lens for the indeviduals use.</o>
    Mark

  5. #5
    Senior Member clemmb's Avatar
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    Re: Which lens?



    Please accept my apologies if I sound argumentative. I do not intend to.


    Mark
    Mark

  6. #6
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    Re: Which lens?



    No need to apologize, Mark, you're doing great.


    Both are tested on an 8 MP camera (the 350D) at Photozone:


    http://www.photozone.de/canon-eos/188-canon-ef-24-105mm-f4-usm-l-is-lab-test-report--review?start=1


    http://www.photozone.de/canon-eos/178-canon-ef-s-17-55mm-f28-usm-is-test-report--review?start=1


    For resolution/contrast on a 8 MP camera, they are similar:


    1728 LW/PH MTF-50 for the 24-105 at 24mm f/4 border


    1758 LW/PH MTF-50 for the 17-55 at 24mm f/4 border


    1972 LW/PH MTF-50 for the 24-105 at 24mm f/4 center


    2134 LW/PH MTF-50 for the 17-55 at 24mm f/4 center


    (I think the difference would be more pronounced on a 15 MP body, but I haven't seen any direct comparisons yet.)


    For chromatic aberration:


    1.55 for 24-105 at 24mm f/4 border


    0.73 for the 17-55 at 24mm f/4 border


    Vignetting:


    0.37 for the 24-105 at 24mm f/4 (first win for the 24-105)


    0.43 for the 17-55 at 24mm f/4


    Distortion:


    0.32% for the 17-55 at 24mm


    0.61% for the 24-105 at 24mm

  7. #7
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    Re: Which lens?



    I have never owned the 17-55, but I will vouch for the claims of distortion and CA on the wide end of the 24-105.


    Please disregard this comment if you are interested in or bidding on my 24-105 on eBay.


    I was thoroughly impressed with it on the normal to telephoto side though.

  8. #8
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    Re: Which lens?



    You know, if I was going for a walk around on a 1.6x body, and I had no full frame compatability requirements, I would probably go for the 17-55 too....


    However, the tests you're referencing, just to be a pain, knowing only what you're referencing, seem a bit unfair.


    They're all done at 24mm focal length, which is the absolute edge of the zoom range of the 24-105. Why not at 35 or 55mm?? My guess is that the 24-105 would do significantly better compared to it's 24mm performancein these ranges. That's not to say that the 24mm tests are irrelevant, but they seem like a worst case scenario. I like having the 24mm range on the 24-105, though if I needed a really high quality 24mm shot, I wouldn't be using that lens. I'd go with my 16-35mm zoom, or eventhe 24-70 would do better, or if I was lucky enough to have one a 24mm f/1.4 LUSM (or II like yourself).


    Anyway, nits picked.... [:P]

  9. #9
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    Re: Which lens?



    I know it is the difference between a fixed and zoom, but my 24 1.4L mkI blows the doors of my 16-35 mkII at matching apertures. Thus making it very difficult for me to sell the 24. I've never tried to compare flare. I can only imagine how spectacular the 24 mkII is.

  10. #10
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    Re: Which lens?



    Quote Originally Posted by Colin
    They're all done at 24mm focal length, which is the absolute edge of the zoom range of the 24-105.

    When used on a crop body as a walkaround, I would think that 24mm would be one of the most widely used focal lengths, especially because it can't go anywhere near as wide as 17mm.


    Quote Originally Posted by Colin


    Why not at 35 or 55mm??


    Only because photozone didn't test any of the same focal lengths in that range. If you're OK with comparing different focal lengths, how about the extreme of the 17-55 (55mm) vs mid-range on the 24-105 (70mm)?


    For resolution/contrast on a 8 MP camera, the results are pretty similar to 24mm:


    1661 LW/PH MTF-50 for the 24-105 at 70mm f/4 border


    1712 LW/PH MTF-50 for the 17-55 at 55mm f/4 border


    1840 LW/PH MTF-50 for the 24-105 at 70mm f/4 center


    2088 LW/PH MTF-50 for the 17-55 at 55mm f/4 center


    Looks like the same difference as at 24mm.


    For chromatic aberration:


    0.51 for 24-105 at 70mm f/4 border


    0.44 for the 17-55 at 55mm f/4 border


    Vignetting:


    0.31 for the 24-105 at 70mm f/4


    0.37 for the 17-55 at 55mm f/4


    Distortion:


    0.64% for the 24-105 at 70mm


    1.15% for the 17-55 at 55mm


    It's really should be no surprise that a $1030 3.2X kit lens that covers only a *small* image circle can beat a $1090 4.4X professional kit lens that must cover a *large* image circle.


    Quote Originally Posted by Keith B
    Please disregard this comment if you are interested in or bidding on my 24-105 on eBay.

    Ha! Awesome.

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