Refurbished or Recertified?

[TimT]

I guess the trick is to clearly explain the work that's been done on your web site without offending the manufacturer. The ideal would be to have
a mouseover or clickable link from the word recertified and the visual that says something to the effect of: "All Adorama "Certified" cameras and equipment have been tested and brought up to spec by the manufacturer."


If you aren't mentioning Canon by name they may not mind. If the explanation of what's been done to the equipment gets too vague and generic, you will lose trust and sales.

[HelenOster]

<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"]<span style="font-size: 10pt; color: #000099; font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-language: HE; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma;"]Bob
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"]<span style="font-size: 10pt; color: #000099; font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-language: HE; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma;"]
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"]<span style="font-size: 10pt; color: #000099; font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-language: HE; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma;"]


<span style="font-size: 10pt; color: #000099; font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-language: HE; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma;"]
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"]<span style="font-size: 10pt; color: #000099; font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-language: HE; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma;"]Refurbished itemsmay have been used previously in field tests or sales displays, they might simply have been ordered in error and returned to the retailer (who can't then sell them as 'new' so they have to be sent back to the manufacturer for refurbishment) or theymight havebeen ex-store demos.<span style="color: black; mso-bidi-language: HE;"]<o></o>
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"]<span style="font-size: 10pt; color: #000099; font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-language: HE; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma;"]<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"]<o></o>
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"]<span style="font-size: 10pt; color: #000099; font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-language: HE; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma;"]If items are pulled from the production linebecause something appears faulty, even for a very minor issue, once they have been removed from the normal flow of production, theyhave to beflagged asrefurbished.<span style="color: black; mso-bidi-language: HE;"]<o></o>
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"]<span style="font-size: 10pt; color: #000099; font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-language: HE; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma;"]So youcould actually get a model coming straight from the factory that reallyhasn't been sold, or used at all.<span style="color: black; mso-bidi-language: HE;"]<o></o>
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"]<span style="font-size: 10pt; color: #000099; font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-language: HE; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma;"]<o></o>
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"]<span style="font-size: 10pt; color: #000099; font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-language: HE; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma;"]Refurbished items are checked over by the manufacturer by hand, inspected very thoroughly, diagnosed, and calibrated by experienced technicians. So, they can turn out to be more dependable thannew items - which will only have been checked by a process of random sampling as they come off the conveyor belt.<span style="color: black; mso-bidi-language: HE;"]<o></o>
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"]<span style="color: black; mso-bidi-language: HE;"]<span style="font-size: small;"]<span style="font-family: Times New Roman;"]<o></o>
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"]<span style="font-size: 10pt; color: #000099; font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-language: HE;"]As all the refurbished products come with a 90 day return-to-Adorama warranty, if there are any problems you can simply send them back to us<o></o>


<span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;"]Sincerely<o></o>


<span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;"]Helen <span class="goog-spellcheck-word"]Oster
<span class="goog-spellcheck-word"]Adorama Camera Customer Service Ambassador<o></o>


<st1ersonname w:st="on"]<span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;"]helen.oster@adoramacamera.com</st1ersonname><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;"]<o></o>


<span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;"]www.adorama.com<o></o>
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"]

<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"]

[HelenOster]

<span style="font-size: 9pt; color: black; font-family: Verdana;"]Mark


<span style="font-size: 9pt; color: black; font-family: Verdana;"]


<span style="font-size: 9pt; color: black; font-family: Verdana;"]We have already removed the phrase "refurbished by xxxxx" - which has led to huge numbers of customers contacting me to query whether this is because we at Adorama are now refurbishing them ourselves...... we aren't! All refurbished items are still factory refurbished by the manufacturer and will continue to be - while the warranty will continue to be provided by Adorama.<o></o>


<span style="font-size: 9pt; color: black; font-family: Verdana;"]The new website is still under construction - with over 500,000 items to load and a lot of exciting additions planned, it's not a straight-forward procedure.<o></o>


<span style="font-size: 9pt; color: black; font-family: Verdana;"]I know that an alert system has been discussed, and if it can be incorporated, I believe thatit will be<o></o>


<span style="font-size: 9pt; color: black; font-family: Verdana;"]<o></o>


<span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black; font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;"]Sincerely<o></o>


<span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black; font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;"]Helen <span class="goog-spellcheck-word"]Oster
<span class="goog-spellcheck-word"]Adorama Camera Customer Service Ambassador<o></o>


<u1ersonname u2:st="on"]<st1ersonname w:st="on"]<span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black; font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;"]helen.oster@adoramacamera.com</st1ersonname></u1ersonname><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black; font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;"]<o></o>


<span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black; font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;"]www.adorama.com<o></o>

[HelenOster]

Thanks Tim; I'll certainly pass your suggestion on


<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;"]Sincerely<o></o>


<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;"]Helen <span class="goog-spellcheck-word"]Oster
<span class="goog-spellcheck-word"]Adorama Camera Customer Service Ambassador<o></o>


<st1ersonname w:st="on"]<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;"]helen.oster@adoramacamera.com</st1ersonname><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;"]<o></o>


<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;"]www.adorama.com<o></o>

[I chase light]

<span style="font-size: 9pt; color: #000000; font-family: Verdana;"]We have already removed the phrase "refurbished by xxxxx" - which has led to huge numbers of customers contacting me to query whether this is because we at Adorama are now refurbishing them ourselves...... we aren't! All refurbished items are still factory refurbished by the manufacturer and will continue to be - while the warranty will continue to be provided by Adorama.


<span style="font-size: 9pt; color: #000000; font-family: Verdana;"]The new website is still under construction - with over 500,000 items to load and a lot of exciting additions planned, it's not a straight-forward procedure.


<span style="font-size: 9pt; color: #000000; font-family: Verdana;"]I know that an alert system has been discussed, and if it can be incorporated, I believe thatit will be


<span style="font-size: 10pt; color: #000000; font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;"]Sincerely


<span style="font-size: 10pt; color: #000000; font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;"]Helen <span class="goog-spellcheck-word"]Oster
<span class="goog-spellcheck-word"]Adorama Camera Customer Service Ambassador


<span style="font-size: 10pt; color: #000000; font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;"]helen.oster@adoramacamera.com<span style="font-size: 10pt; color: #000000; font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;"]


<span style="font-size: 10pt; color: #000000; font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;"]www.adorama.com



<p style="CLEAR: both"]

I would just like to say that Adorama and you, Helen, specifically, show an admirable concern fortransparency ofthe items you sell. This, for me, is what makes your company a first-class operation with which to do business.


That said, connectingsearches on the term "refurbished" to "recertified" would make it easier to find what one is lookingf for. Also, a clear (clickable?) definition of each term, and the difference between them, might help those who are notregulars on sites like this one to understand.


Yours,


James Ducat

[Bob]

<span style="color: black; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif'; mso-themecolor: text1;"]<span style="font-size: small;"]Helen,<o></o>


<span style="color: black; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif'; mso-themecolor: text1;"]<span style="font-size: small;"]Thanks for your reply.<o></o>


<span style="color: black; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif'; mso-themecolor: text1;"]<span style="font-size: small;"]How can we find out what we are buying - a demo unit vs. a manufacturing rework unit. i.e. One that has been used extensivelyin the field (DEMO) vs. not used by a user?<o></o>


<span style="color: black; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif'; mso-themecolor: text1;"]<span style="font-size: small;"]Also, If canon reworks a unit on the manufacturing line why are they not providing a 1 year warranty?<o></o>


<span style="color: black; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif'; mso-themecolor: text1;"]<span style="font-size: small;"]Thanks,<o></o>


<span style="color: black; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif'; mso-themecolor: text1;"]<span style="font-size: small;"]Bob<o></o>

[Colin]

I like lenses that have been looked over and brought up to speed by a technician. I've bought new equipment that needed to go back to the factory for work, and aside from the warranty issue, I'd prefer that it just come fresh from having a qualified look over.


I think something like "Factory Refurbished" or "Manufacturer Refurbished"would be fine. I can understand that Canon might not want to have their name or responsibility implied, but I also don't want a refurbished product that might have simply gone through some mindless process by a guy who has a questionable working environment and experience. When I buy a lens, I want it pristine. I want it to focus correctly. I want it to work like new.


A guy who does work out of his garage may very well be fine, but I don't want to take that chance if I'm spending hundreds or maybe thousands of dollars. Refurbished is a good deal if it's leaving a Canon facility, and they're saying that it works just as well as new, cosmetic blemishes or not. If it's made to just 'work' by someone's subjective standards, I'd rather just spend the money to buy new.

[HelenOster]

<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto;" class="MsoNormal"]<span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black; font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-language: HE;"]Bob<o></o>
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"]<span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black; font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-language: HE;"]
The honest answer is we don't know; refurbished equipment is not like new inventory. The manufacturers only contactus when they have a batch to sell, therefore the availability is unpredictable and the individual history is unknown. However, if you were to ask my personal opinion on whether the equipment that Adorama offers as refurbishedis typically less than a year old, based on the regularity with which we receive batches, I'd be inclined to think it is all relatively new.<span style="color: black; mso-bidi-language: HE;"]<o></o>
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"]<span style="color: black; mso-bidi-language: HE;"]<o><span style="font-size: small; font-family: Times New Roman;"]</o>
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"]<span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black; font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-language: HE;"]All the refurbished products come with a 90 day return-to-Adorama warranty; 14 days from date of receipt for a full refund, and the balance for repair or replacement. <o></o>
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"]<span style="color: black; mso-bidi-language: HE;"]<o><span style="font-size: small; font-family: Times New Roman;"]</o>
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"]<span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black; font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-language: HE;"]None of the manufacturers who provide refurbished inventoryoffer any implicit/explicit or any other type of warranty, (although currently, we do send Canon equipment back to Canon for the 90 days).<o></o>
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"]<span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black; font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-language: HE;"]<o></o>
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto;" class="MsoNormal"]<span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black; font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-language: HE; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;"]Sincerely
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto;" class="MsoNormal"]<span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black; font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-language: HE; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;"]<o></o>
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto;" class="MsoNormal"]<span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black; font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-language: HE; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;"]Helen <span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black; font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-language: HE; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt;"]Oster<span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black; font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-language: HE; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;"]
<span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black; font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-language: HE; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt;"]Adorama<span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black; font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-language: HE; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;"] Camera Customer Service Ambassador
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto;" class="MsoNormal"]<span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black; font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-language: HE; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;"]<o></o>
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto;" class="MsoNormal"]<st1ersonname w:st="on"]<span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black; font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-language: HE; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;"]helen.oster@adoramacamera.com</st1ersonname><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black; font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-language: HE; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;"]<o></o>
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto;" class="MsoNormal"]<span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black; font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-language: HE; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;"]www.adorama.com<o></o>
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"]<o><span style="font-size: small; font-family: Times New Roman;"]</o>

[HelenOster]

<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"]<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana;"]Colin<o></o>
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"]<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana;"]<o></o>
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"]<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana;"]I understand that the manufacturers are unhappy at us using even thedescription 'manufacturer refurbished' - even though, at Adorama, we know this to be the case! <o></o>
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"]<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana;"]We also wouldn't want to sell refurbished items that hadn't been inspected very thoroughly by the manufacturer by hand, and diagnosed, and calibrated by experienced technicians - because apart from anything else, (such as commitment to customer care and our reputation), we offer the warranty!!<o></o>
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"]<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana;"]<o></o>
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"]<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana;"]Sincerely<o></o>
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"]<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana;"]<o></o>
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"]<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana;"]Helen Oster
Adorama Camera Customer Service Ambassador<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana;"]<o></o>
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"]<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana;"]<o></o>
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"]<st1ersonname w:st="on"]<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana;"]helen.oster@adoramacamera.com</st1ersonname><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana;"]<o></o>
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;" class="MsoNormal"]<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana;"]www.adorama.com<o></o>

[40Doodle]

Seems to me this whole thing is about Canon wanting to avoid having any responsibility for warranty on items that they provide to dealers for resale to the public. It sounds a bit hollow and weird to me for them to be asking Adorama (or others) to cease using the term "refurbished" because it may imply that Canon has some responsibility for the warranty. Hello? If the product is coming from Canon, repaired by Canon and as Helen shared is likely pretty new, then why not offer a warranty from Canon (especially if the product is still within it's original warranty period)? It's not like Canon would be increasing any exposure beyond what they agree to offer for the first 12 months anyway. Does it really matter that they found a problem with a product themselves or some customer had to return it because there was an infant mortality failure? The product would have been under warranty anyway. Just because something may have failed on it during the early term of the warranty is no reason to shed that warranty IMO. Canon themselves should at least provide some portion of the warranty.


For me this whole discussion has raised more concern about Canon's practices than anything else. None of my thoughts are in any way critical of Adorama or their business. They appear to be wanting to do the right thing for the customer and took a risk on discussing it with us here. So, for me, Adorama has again demonstrated customer care and interest in the way we buy product. As for Canon...I'm looking a bit askew at them and wondering what is really behind all this stuff.


Maybe this is all about what some lawyer at Canon created...[{][st][+o(]


Rick