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Thread: rookie comparison of 70-200 mk 1 and mk 2

  1. #11
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    Re: rookie comparison of 70-200 mk 1 and mk 2



    There are a few things I want to add (my first post was done sort of in a rush, I had to pick up my daughter from school )


    In doing my tests, I learned a lot about how difficult it is to do controlled comparisons of lenses. I gained a great deal of appreciation for the collection of ISO crops
    Bryan has amassed and have become even more grateful for his work. On my first try, I taped the ISO chart to a shed outside and took pictures on a tripod. I tested a number of lenses at different times of the day. I knew different lighting could affect perception of sharpness, but I had no idea how much. Tests done in the morning looked soft compared to those done in the afternoon. To do it right, I decided I had to move my operation inside and use a flash for lighting. (Bryan uses several flashes... I forget how many but I think at least 4).


    Another problem I had was getting the optical axis perpendicular to the ISO chart, or in other words, lining up the focal plane with the chart. Bryan describes a very involved method of doing this using expensive equipment that I don't have. I just taped the chart to the wall, leveled the camera with a bubble level, and squared it relative to the wall with a square. This wasn't good enough. Sometimes it worked okay, but sometimes corners would be blurry when I focused on the center, or if I focused on one corner, the others would be oof.


    I even found that pictures shot at different ISO appeared to have different IQ. So for my final test, I shot ISO 100, manual mode, and made chose "neutral" picture style (all settings, including sharpness, set to 0).


    The final surprise was what appeared to me very different results in different corners. As I said, the lenses didn't look that different in the upper left corner, but in the lower right, I thought the Mk 2 is much closer in quality to the 135mm f/2 than to the Mk 1.


    The question "which lens has better IQ" or even "how much better is lens A than lens B" are not simple ones. I restricted myself to 200mm f/2.8 (for the 70-200's... obviously the 135 mm, for comparison sake, was 135mm f/2.8). I can hardly imagine doing all this work at several focal lengths and several f/ numbers for every canon lens made. (!)


    All of this begs the question: if it is so difficult to detect differences in controlled conditions, how much is it really worth to have the best possible sharpness? I think question is a valid one. Of course, if one plans to crop heavily, one really does what to get the best sharpness possible. But much of the time, the ISO chart isn't the final word. Bokeh, color, and contrast are differences one does not need to be a pixel peeper to see. I didn't compare bokeh, but I do find color and contrast on the Mk 2 to be an improvement (but then I tend to be very suspicious of such subjective comparisons). The advantage of ISO comparison is that they are objective. It almost seems axiomatic that the more useful the parameter you're comparing, the more subjective the result. One does one's best.









  2. #12
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    Re: rookie comparison of 70-200 mk 1 and mk 2




    <div>


    If I were just buying a 70-200 I'd get the mkII but I definitely won't be upgrading. I paid $1500 a year ago for my 2.8 IS with rebate. To me the mkII is definitely not a $1000 worth of a difference. The IS seems to be a big selling point but being able to shoot at 1/25 or so isn't all that appealing to me. I was shooting an indoor event tonight with my 70-200 2.8 IS mostly @ 200mm, ISO 1600 2.8 and 1/40th. When someone was very still I was completely happy with sharpness but at 1/40th of a second you aren't stopping much movement. Hand movement and even the slightest head movement shows up.


    I'm sure someone will have an instance where &lt;1/40th @200mm is of value but not for me.
    </div>

  3. #13
    Senior Member neuroanatomist's Avatar
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    Re: rookie comparison of 70-200 mk 1 and mk 2



    Quote Originally Posted by bburns223
    I'm comparing it to the Mark II. Since the difference between the 70-200 f/2.8 II and 70-200 f4 IS is entirely aperture, why not buy the 70-200 f/4 IS and...an 85mm f/1.8 and 100mm macro?
    <div>


    Well, for one thing, because I already have an EF 85mm f/1.8 and an EF 100mm f/2.8<span style="color: red;"]L Macro IS USM. []


    But,70-200 f/2.8 II vs. 70-200 f4 IS plus $1300 to spend on something else (I'm thinking the EF 35mm f/1.4L) is a very, very relevant debate...


    Quote Originally Posted by Keith B
    If I were just buying a 70-200 I'd get the mkII
    </div>


    Which is the way I'm leaning right now, since I don't have any of the 70-200 zooms, and I'd rather make the best choice, the first time.

  4. #14
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    Re: rookie comparison of 70-200 mk 1 and mk 2



    Quote Originally Posted by neuroanatomist


    But,70-200 f/2.8 II vs. 70-200 f4 IS plus $1300 to spend on something else (I'm thinking the EF 35mm f/1.4L) is a very, very relevant debate...
    <div>

    </div>


    Have you ever shot with the 35 1.4L? If you haven't you need to before you decide. The 35 will probably be the deal breaker. It has brought a tear to my eye on occasion.


    If I didn't have to shoot night time and indoor sports I think I'd rather own the 70-200 4.0 IS.

  5. #15
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    Re: rookie comparison of 70-200 mk 1 and mk 2



    Quote Originally Posted by bburns223


    The main reason I say the II isn't worth it is that the Mark I wasn't a bad lens. The Mark II is just better. How much? Not enough to justify a $700 cost increase.
    <div style="CLEAR: both"]</div>




    Definitely second that. I just got my first L lens, the MK I 70-200mm 2.8 IS a week ago. The thing takes phenominal pictures. Auto focus is lighting quick, and IS is very good. Would one more stop, a little less flaring, and a (seemingly very) marginal increase in sharpness worth me kissing $700 goodbye? On my budget, no way. If I weren't concerned about cost, I'd have waited, sure, but I'm tickled pink with my MK I and I know she'll serve me good for a long time.


    Or until I make it big, and then upgrade [:P]

  6. #16
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    Re: rookie comparison of 70-200 mk 1 and mk 2



    Quote Originally Posted by LoneSierra
    and a (seemingly very) marginal increase in sharpness worth me kissing $700 goodbye?

    It may not seem like much from my data, but in Bryan's more carefully done comparison, the difference is dramatic.


    Of course, by dramatic, I don't really mean dramatic. After all, in most situations with prints less than 8x10, I don't think the difference sharpness difference between a decent zoom and an phenomenal prime is that noticeable unless you crop. But if you want that extra sharpness, I don't think $700 is too much of a premium to pay for it. According to Bryan's images, the Mk II actually beats out some primes, and even with extenders it compares well with the 100-400 zoom. It is definitely worth $700 to someone who, as a result of the better IQ, does not feel the need to buy a 100-400 zoom. (The 100-400 zoom is of course still better at 400mm IMO, but at 300mm they're close).


    I'm not sure if my lens is less sharp than the two sharp samples Bryan tested, or if the difference has more to do with testing conditions. Therin lies what I find most disturbing about the expensive lens (and the only reason I went through all this trouble): sample variation.


    Anyhow- I agree that the Mk 1 is a wonderful lens. It is in fact only because the Mk 1 has been my favorite lens for years that I was willing to pay a premium for the upgrade.



  7. #17
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    Re: rookie comparison of 70-200 mk 1 and mk 2



    I had the Mark I, but sold it a couple of days ago for 1500 and now am planning to upgrade to the Mark II. I currently own the 10-22mm, 24-105mm, and the 100mm is macro.


    My big reason to upgrade is that with the 2X extender (for high school sports andwildlife)the image seems to be better than the Mark I and compares favorably to the 100-400mm (less so but still comparable to the 400mm f/5.6). Also, the new lens with the improved IS, in my opinion, obviates the need for the 85mm f/1.8 for low light photography.


    Ifeel this 4 lens combination is more than sufficient for my needs.

  8. #18
    Senior Member neuroanatomist's Avatar
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    Re: rookie comparison of 70-200 mk 1 and mk 2



    Quote Originally Posted by abrama94
    My big reason to upgrade is that with the 2X extender (for high school sports andwildlife)the image seems to be better than the Mark I and compares favorably to the 100-400mm (less so but still comparable to the 400mm f/5.6).

    I do agree that the MkII seems to give much better results with the extenders than the MkI. But, be a little cautious about judging the performance with extenders across the zoom range - at least in Bryan's tests, the extenders are only tested at the longest end of the zoom. In other words, you can't see what a 70-200mm + 2x looks like at 200mm (i.e. with the zoom ring set to 100mm) - performance may not be consistent across the zoom range. Unless you're planning on swapping the t/c off and on during a hike or a game (not easy), I'm honestly not sure how the MkII as a 140-400mm f/5.6 zoom would compare to the 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6 when each is used across their range. I'd actually really like to know the results of such a comparison!

  9. #19
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    Re: rookie comparison of 70-200 mk 1 and mk 2



    While I agree that performancemaybe "inconsistent across the zoom range", I am willing to sacrifice some sharpness for the versatility offered with the 2X (and I agree swapping extenders is not easy and increases the chance for dropping something.).


    I would also like to see such a comparison.


    Thanks

  10. #20
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    Re: rookie comparison of 70-200 mk 1 and mk 2



    Quote Originally Posted by neuroanatomist
    do agree that the MkII seems to give much better results with the extenders than the MkI. But, be a little cautious about judging the performance with extenders across the zoom range - at least in Bryan's tests, the extenders are only tested at the longest end of the zoom.

    Personally, I prefer cropping to extenders. Sure, you lose megapixels, but if I crop the 70-200, I still get a 400mm 5 megapixel image, and there is no additional loss of IQ due to the extender iteself (though this may be negligable for all I know).


    If cropping is your "extender", there is never a need to do it except at the long end. This is why for me, IQ at the long end is most important.


















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