Supertelephoto Lenses: 400mm, 500mm, 600mm, 800mm.

[HDNitehawk]

I've never used the 500mm f/4L but it seems that some people here handhold it.

I hand hold it, but not very well. There is allot of movement to overcome. I am hoping for a good upgrade to the IS in the new version.


The other thing is the length and its just as important as weight, even though the new 600mm will weigh about the same as the 500mm now, your center of gravity will be further from your body making it harder to hold.


That is one of the main reasons I a am leaning toward the new 500mm instead of the 600mm.


We are probably 5 months away from release any way, so we have some time to decide.


If I always used a monopod, those issues wouldn't matter at all.

[JJphoto]

to me, the best outdoor action/air show/BIF(bigger birds)is the "cheap" and old 400mm5.6.seriously! and pick 600Mmll for birds and satisfi your L versionII sickness.[]

[Steve U]

If I had your current kit I would lean towards the new 500MKll and new teleconverters to suit and hang on to your 300mm. I

[Richard Lane]

Thanks again for all of the responses!


Fast lenses are great and I always wanted a 400mm f/2.8, but I never envisioned that the prices would go so high. Thanks Canon, it looks like you'll sell me one lens now instead of two.


I seem to be managing with the 300mm f/2.8 +1.4X (420mm f/4). The 400mm f/2.8 would represent faster AF and shooting night games at ISO 6400 at f/4 vs. ISO 3200 at f/2.8. However, I probably only shot about 5 night games last year. With some extra editing time, the noise could be removed.


Another question to ask, is my 420mm f/4 setup too close to the 500mm f/4 with regards to lightweight and versatile travel lens?


I try to think if I needed a super-telephoto lens for the day, or on vacation and I had a 300, 400, 500, and 600 in my closet which one would I want to grab. For some reason I'm drawn to the 500mm II for it's size, hand-holdability and versatility. I wouldn't need the 1.4X for surfing with the bare naked 500mm, which will help with AF.


See, if I buy the 400mm II, I have a feeling that I may still want the smaller 500mm II and that would be crazy to own both of them. But if I keep my 300mm and add a 500mm then that doesn't sound too crazy to me.


What would give a better bokeh and athlete/subject isolation, 400mm f/2.8 or 500mm f/4? I'm thinking 500mm f/4.


Will Canon come out with a user adjustable FF/Cropped 1D body?


Enquiring minds want to know!


OK, so the cats out of the bag and now you all know that I'm nuts!


Rich

[Kayaker72]

Hi Rich,


I thought you were shooting the 1D Mk IV, which is APS-H, correct?And that is 1.3x FF and with a TC it is 1.3 x 1.4 x FF? If I am off on how this works, everyone, please just ignore this post..........


You may be able to answer this from experience already, but have you considered taking your gear out for a few tests this weekend?It seems to me that you have the ability to simulate most of these focal lengths that you are considering using a combination of your 1DIV, 7D and TCs (judging from your profile). If so, below is a table with the FF equivalent focal lengths of the lenses in consideration. So, for example, if you want to see what the 500 mm f/4 would give you in terms of angle of view on the 1DIV, you could try the 7D + 300 mm + 1.4 TC.
<table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0" style="width: 514px; border-collapse: collapse;"]
<colgroup><col width="64" style="width: 48pt;"]</col><col width="75" span="6" style="width: 56pt; mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 2742;"]</col></colgroup>
<tbody>
<tr height="20" style="height: 15pt;"]
<td width="64" rowspan="2" height="60" class="xl69" style="border-bottom: black 0.5pt solid; text-align: center; border-left: #f0f0f0; background-color: transparent; width: 48pt; height: 45pt; border-top: #f0f0f0; border-right: #f0f0f0;"]<span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: small;"]Actual Focal Length</td>
<td colspan="6" width="450" class="xl66" style="border-bottom: windowtext 0.5pt solid; text-align: center; border-left: #f0f0f0; background-color: transparent; width: 336pt; border-top: #f0f0f0; border-right: #f0f0f0;"]<span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: small;"]FF Equivalent Focal Lengths (mm)</td>
</tr>
<tr height="40" style="height: 30pt;"]
<td width="75" height="40" class="xl65" style="border-bottom: windowtext 0.5pt solid; text-align: center; border-left: #f0f0f0; background-color: transparent; width: 56pt; height: 30pt; border-top: #f0f0f0; border-right: #f0f0f0;"]<span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: small;"]APS-H</td>
<td width="75" class="xl65" style="border-bottom: windowtext 0.5pt solid; text-align: center; border-left: #f0f0f0; background-color: transparent; width: 56pt; border-top: #f0f0f0; border-right: #f0f0f0;"]<span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: small;"]APS-H x 1.4x</td>
<td width="75" class="xl65" style="border-bottom: windowtext 0.5pt solid; text-align: center; border-left: #f0f0f0; background-color: transparent; width: 56pt; border-top: #f0f0f0; border-right: #f0f0f0;"]<span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: small;"]APS-H x 2x</td>
<td width="75" class="xl65" style="border-bottom: windowtext 0.5pt solid; text-align: center; border-left: #f0f0f0; background-color: transparent; width: 56pt; border-top: #f0f0f0; border-right: #f0f0f0;"]<span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: small;"]APS-C</td>
<td width="75" class="xl65" style="border-bottom: windowtext 0.5pt solid; text-align: center; border-left: #f0f0f0; background-color: transparent; width: 56pt; border-top: #f0f0f0; border-right: #f0f0f0;"]<span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: small;"]APS-C x 1.4x</td>
<td width="75" class="xl65" style="border-bottom: windowtext 0.5pt solid; text-align: center; border-left: #f0f0f0; background-color: transparent; width: 56pt; border-top: #f0f0f0; border-right: #f0f0f0;"]<span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: small;"]APS-C x 2x</td>
</tr>
<tr height="20" style="height: 15pt;"]
<td height="20" class="xl67" style="text-align: center; background-color: transparent; height: 15pt; border: #f0f0f0;"]<span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: small;"]300</td>
<td class="xl70" style="text-align: center; background-color: #ffff99; border: #f0f0f0;"]<span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: small;"]390</td>
<td class="xl68" style="text-align: center; background-color: #d7e4bc; border: #f0f0f0;"]<span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: small;"]546</td>
<td class="xl71" style="text-align: center; background-color: #b8cce4; border: #f0f0f0;"]<span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: small;"]780</td>
<td class="xl70" style="text-align: center; background-color: #ffff99; border: #f0f0f0;"]<span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: small;"]480</td>
<td class="xl68" style="text-align: center; background-color: #d7e4bc; border: #f0f0f0;"]<span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: small;"]672</td>
<td class="xl71" style="text-align: center; background-color: #b8cce4; border: #f0f0f0;"]<span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: small;"]960</td>
</tr>
<tr height="20" style="height: 15pt;"]
<td height="20" class="xl67" style="text-align: center; background-color: transparent; height: 15pt; border: #f0f0f0;"]<span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: small;"]400</td>
<td class="xl70" style="text-align: center; background-color: #ffff99; border: #f0f0f0;"]<span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: small;"]520</td>
<td class="xl68" style="text-align: center; background-color: #d7e4bc; border: #f0f0f0;"]<span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: small;"]728</td>
<td class="xl71" style="text-align: center; background-color: #b8cce4; border: #f0f0f0;"]<span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: small;"]1,040</td>
<td class="xl70" style="text-align: center; background-color: #ffff99; border: #f0f0f0;"]<span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: small;"]640</td>
<td class="xl68" style="text-align: center; background-color: #d7e4bc; border: #f0f0f0;"]<span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: small;"]896</td>
<td class="xl71" style="text-align: center; background-color: #b8cce4; border: #f0f0f0;"]<span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: small;"]1,280</td>
</tr>
<tr height="20" style="height: 15pt;"]
<td height="20" class="xl67" style="text-align: center; background-color: transparent; height: 15pt; border: #f0f0f0;"]<span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: small;"]500</td>
<td class="xl68" style="text-align: center; background-color: #d7e4bc; border: #f0f0f0;"]<span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: small;"]650</td>
<td class="xl71" style="text-align: center; background-color: #b8cce4; border: #f0f0f0;"]<span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: small;"]910</td>
<td class="xl75" style="text-align: center; background-color: #b2a1c7; border: #f0f0f0;"]<span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: small;"]1,300</td>
<td class="xl68" style="text-align: center; background-color: #d7e4bc; border: #f0f0f0;"]<span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: small;"]800</td>
<td class="xl71" style="text-align: center; background-color: #b8cce4; border: #f0f0f0;"]<span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: small;"]1,120</td>
<td class="xl75" style="text-align: center; background-color: #b2a1c7; border: #f0f0f0;"]<span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: small;"]1,600</td>
</tr>
<tr height="20" style="height: 15pt;"]
<td height="20" class="xl67" style="text-align: center; background-color: transparent; height: 15pt; border: #f0f0f0;"]<span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: small;"]600</td>
<td class="xl68" style="text-align: center; background-color: #d7e4bc; border: #f0f0f0;"]<span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: small;"]780</td>
<td class="xl71" style="text-align: center; background-color: #b8cce4; border: #f0f0f0;"]<span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: small;"]1,092</td>
<td class="xl75" style="text-align: center; background-color: #b2a1c7; border: #f0f0f0;"]<span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: small;"]1,560</td>
<td class="xl68" style="text-align: center; background-color: #d7e4bc; border: #f0f0f0;"]<span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: small;"]960</td>
<td class="xl71" style="text-align: center; background-color: #b8cce4; border: #f0f0f0;"]<span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: small;"]1,344</td>
<td class="xl75" style="text-align: center; background-color: #b2a1c7; border: #f0f0f0;"]<span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: small;"]1,920</td>
</tr>
<tr height="20" style="height: 15pt;"]
<td height="20" style="background-color: transparent; height: 15pt; border: #f0f0f0;"]<span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: small;"]</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border: #f0f0f0;"]<span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: small;"]</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border: #f0f0f0;"]<span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: small;"]</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border: #f0f0f0;"]<span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: small;"]</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border: #f0f0f0;"]<span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: small;"]</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border: #f0f0f0;"]<span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: small;"]</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border: #f0f0f0;"]<span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: small;"]</td>
</tr>
<tr height="20" style="height: 15pt;"]
<td height="20" style="background-color: transparent; height: 15pt; border: #f0f0f0;"]<span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: small;"]</td>
<td class="xl72" style="text-align: center; background-color: #ffff99; border: #f0f0f0;"]<span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: small;"]f/2.8</td>
<td class="xl73" style="text-align: center; background-color: #d7e4bc; border: #f0f0f0;"]<span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: small;"]f/4</td>
<td class="xl74" style="text-align: center; background-color: #b8cce4; border: #f0f0f0;"]<span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: small;"]f/5.6</td>
<td class="xl76" style="text-align: center; background-color: #b2a1c7; border: #f0f0f0;"]<span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: small;"]f/8</td>
<td style="background-color: transparent; border: #f0f0f0;"]</td>
<td style="text-align: center; background-color: transparent; border: #f0f0f0;"]</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>


EDIT-added colors to show maximum aperture for the lens combinationsin consideration.


The other thing I am wondering, and I apologize if you already mentioned it, but are only going to exclusively shootFF/APS-H or are you willing to use your 7D? If so, that opens up even more options to consider [:|].


So, my thoughts, assuming my table is correct and you are shooting a APS-H,it seems that the 400 mm f/2.8 with the two teleconverters is a great option (so no, it makes complete sense to me....I detect no craziness). It would natively give you a similar focal length to what you've been using (520 mm vs 546 mm) and the ability to reach out much further. And, honestly, 1,040 mm FF equivalent at f/5.6 soundsamazing. Given that the 500 f/4 is only ~100 mm "longer" at f/4 in comparison to the 300 mm + 1.4x, I am not sure it is worth it. I could see keeping the 300 mm and the 600 mm, that would be an amazing range to have covered, but the 400 f/2.8 seems to get most of the functional range with one lens.


Brant

[Richard Lane]

Thanks for the chart Brant. I'll be using the MK IV as my main body and if I need a 2nd setup then I will put a 24-70mm or 70-200mm on my 7D.


I feel confident about what focal lengths I need for sports because I'm dealing with a certain sized field. However, when it comes to BIF and wildlife there aren't any rules. You could have a bird near or far, or high up in the air. So, I think that's where I'm not sure what I want or need. I think the 600mm shots below look nice, but I think they may have been better if the bird had some more room around the frame and room to fly into.





1D MKIV: 300mm f/2.8L IS + 2X @600mm f/5.6 1/1250sec ISO 320



















Then I had some closer ones yesterday:


MK IV: 300mm f/2.8L IS @300mm f/6.3 1/500sec. ISO 400






Rich

[btaylor]

Another question to ask, is my 420mm f/4 setup too close to the 500mm f/4 with regards to lightweight and versatile travel lens?
<div style="CLEAR: both"]</div>

Light weight travel lens? Hehe I get concerned about carrying my 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II !!! []


I don't think I can have too muchhands oninput here as my shooting genre is a little different - but maybe a different point of view could help.


I think you could probably get away with the 300mm f/2.8 (without teleconverter) for night football games, you can always crop slightly to get an equivalent frame as you would with the 400mm f/2.8. The IQ with the 300mm f/2.8 and the 1DIV combo is prettystellar so I would be comfortable with some cropping. Or you could always use your 7D instead of the 1DIV to bump your equivalent focal length up a bit.


Personally, I'd go with the 500mm f/4 III. At f/4 it's still pretty damn quick for that focal length and I always find I'm chasing more focal length (bear in mind I'm using the 70-200 on FF). DOF with the 500mm f/4 @ 50m is around 1.8m and the 400mm f/2.8 is around 2m at the same distance. So if it's DOF / bokeh you're concerned about then both lenses are pretty well on par.


It think that would give you the most flexibility in your kit. However I have been at work for 16 hrs already so my brain might not be functioning to its full capacity right now.


Good luck mate, I wish I were in the position to grab asupertelephoto. Instead I have to pay for a wedding and an overseas trip - French alps here we come!. I think I can handle that []


Ben

[Richard Lane]

Thanks for the info Ben, I figured the DOF was going to be pretty similar on both lenses. Yes you are correct, I have used the 300mm for night games and it was very good. Go get some rest. Maybe you could elope, save the money on the wedding and get the lens instead.


Rich

[HDNitehawk]

Another question to ask, is my 420mm f/4 setup too close to the 500mm f/4 with regards to lightweight and versatile travel lens?


I try to think if I needed a super-telephoto lens for the day, or on vacation and I had a 300, 400, 500, and 600 in my closet which one would I want to grab. For some reason I'm drawn to the 500mm II for it's size, hand-holdability and versatility. I wouldn't need the 1.4X for surfing with the bare naked 500mm, which will help with AF.

Rich IMO they are not close.


Since I have both this is my comparison. You own the 300mm and the teleconvertor so you know what it is like. When I go to the Zoo I might take the the 300mm, I have a Tamrac sling pack it fits in nicely. I would take it about town with me, or carry it in the car.


With the 500mm when you take it, the trip is usually built around the lens. It takes a full backpack to carry. It is allot heaver, bulkier and the support equipment with it is much larger (Gitzo Tripod, Wimberly Head, Light Brackets etc...). It is not a lightweight travel lens and usually doesn't go out unless I have a plan for it. Keep in mind to the length dimensions are for the lens only, add the hood lengths for the real comparisons.


I am looking forward to the new 500mm, loosing a pound and a half is a good thing.


The 300mm with the 1.4x is not a big step down in IQ from the present 500mm. They are quit comparable, it remains to be seen in actual practice how much it will improve in the new versions.


Rick

[btaylor]

Maybe you could elope, save the money on the wedding and get the lens instead.
<div style="CLEAR: both"]</div>

I'd be lying if I said that hadn't crossed my mind...