I want to do school-related event pictures and need equipment and lens recommendations!

[HiFiGuy1]

I haven't done proms/homecomings, but I am able to say that the 12 sittings of senior portraits this year paid more than my part time job. (Those are my credentials haha). BTW, I suggest getting into senior portraits too. People pay out the wazoo for them.

My wife says so, too. She thinks I need to do Sr. portraits, since that kind of work is easier to break into than the contracted and pre-planned (by the school admins, usually) event photography. When you say "out the wazoo", what are we talking about here? Keep in mind I am trying to get my feet wet and am trying to build a client base, and would need to charge accordingly for now.

I agree with the safety net of cards and batteries. (I need to get more cards now that I think about it).


Backup body would be nice, but I suggest borrowing from a friend for now.

Don't know anybody with a Canon body. All my friends shoot Nikon. Peety3, would you be my friend, so I could borrow your 40D? [] Just kidding as far as borrowing the body, I honestly wouldn't feel comfortable with that, even though my insurance would probably pay for the replacement if I broke it. I feel like, with used/refurb pricing what it is for the 40D and/or 50D, I'll just buy a backup.

I'm going out on a limb and not suggesting continuous lighting as did Dallas and Peety3 (I think they did. Don't crucify me if they didn't). I think a couple of vivitar 285HV's will suffice for off camera lighting. Obviously buy one or two Canon 430EXII's for ETTL. (I use one vivitar and one 430EXII and I love them. For event photography, I will be getting more lights though).


You can get the reliable CyberSync wireless system for a few hundred (Trigger is 60. Receivers are 70).

Why do you not recommend continuous lighting? I am not aware of why you would or would not want to have this. My only awareness of lighting is a flash like a 430 or 580EX, and I have borrowed a Gary Fong LightSphere modifier, which gave me some good results while I had it.

As for lenses, maybe a 50 1.8 (for cost) and high quality zoom lenses.

If I got a 50, it would be the f/1.4 version, I think. Actually, since the 24-70 zooms, I think I would be better off with that to start. I know it isn't as fast, but I am guessing I'd be shooting stopped down some anyway for a little more DOF, since it isn't an artsy close-up portrait gig.

Hope I helped some.


-Rodger

Absolutely! I welcome any experienced input on my venture. I only asked for Dallasphotog and Peety3 by name because I know for a fact they do this kind of thing for pay. Anyone else who is in the same boat can certainly chime in, too. Respectfully, I don't want a bunch of speculation by people who haven't been there and done that, though. I can certainly pull stuff out of my own ... , well, you know, without any input from anyone. []

[HiFiGuy1]

Since there have been two suggestions for a backup, what about a used or refurbished 5D? It might be a great spare (or primary for this work), and it seems that everything I've read says that it just so happens that both of the lenses that I currently own certainly work better on FF than FOVCF bodies. The ISO comparisons on this site do seem to back this up. I actually bought the 17-40 back when I had a 5D, and the 28-135 was the kit lens with my 40D, so I sort of didn't pick that specifically. The kit lens certainly seems to have all the common focal lengths for portraits, and the f/stop on a FF should give fairly shallow DOF. It also keeps me from having to buy any lenses for now.

As Chase Jarvis said, the best camera is the one you have. I suggest sticking with your 40D and adding another EF-S body. Why? That safety net. If you get a 5D, you'll make it your primary body. You'll build a lens arsenal around it, such as 17-40, 24-70, and 70-200, using the longer lenses on your 40D. When your 5D breaks, you'll now have a body that's cropped as your main unit, and you'll get caught off-guard on how big of a group shot you can take in any particular spot. My advice? Get two identical (or nearly identical, such as 40D/50D) cameras, learn them well, and then go FF on your third camera. By then, you'll be so fluent in "the crop life" that loss of a FF camera won't kill you. (I work with a 1D3 and either a 40D or XTi...it's always a challenge deciding which lens goes where. The one time I had my 1D3 and a 5D1, I really struggled with lens selection. Life was so much easier for the next event, when I rented a second 1D3.)

Alternatively, I've been thinking already of selling my 17-40 and getting the 17-55 for the 40D, or possibly now the 15-85 which seems like a strong performer with a broader range. Of course, it may make more sense to get the excellent 24-70 which would have an effective focal range of about 38-112mm, and another 40D or 50D, which would give me consistency between the framing of the two bodies with whatever lenses I use.

Again, stick with what you know. If you have proper lighting, you can get away with shooting at f/8 or so, where most any lens works best. Don't sell anything until you have enough of a safety net.

The lightingstuff seems reasonable, and I knew I'd need something. I also thought I should have backgrounds but hadn't looked into them yet. Thank you for the specifics. Believe it or not, I observed the need for the low light for chins,etc., when I was getting my picture at the driver's license place. I saw the first unflattering shot and I asked the girl to take the picture over after repositioning myself. It came out much better, and I learned a practical lesson.

There are lots of options. I went with a very expensive kit (if bought today, it'd be just under $4,000) that's wireless, because I'm too mobile of a shooter. Your work might be a lot easier to do while "plugged in", and that can open up some great inexpensive options that will also be a lot easier to learn lighting. Make money on it, and then you can add the fancy stuff.

Are the 5Ds that problematic? Wow. Okay, I'll get another crop body instead. It was just an idea anyway. Good point about switching between crop factors on the fly, too. That is best left to someone that has much more experience than I, I'm sure.


"Know" is a loose application of the term when it comes to my knowledge of my 40D. I am going to take the advice to REALLY learn my equipment, I promise, but I have been shooting more casually so far.


Well, the 40D or 50D option also saves me money on the spare body, so I agree with your input there. Probably will look for one of those 50D refurbs you mentioned. I have wanted to have AF MicroAdjust ever since that body came out. That is really the only thing my 40D doesn't have that I REALLY want in a 1.6x body. The extra res will be a bonus, too. If this whole thing takes off, I'll end up with at least one 1D Mark IV one day, but not for now. With the feature set it offers, and being APS-H, I honestly think that could be the last body I ever buy, and I'd just replace it if it broke.


You are still sticking with the suggestion for continuous lighting, yes? I have been on the road, but I am going to read up on the units that Dallasphotog listed and price them out for my kit. BTW, why do I see the Vivitar 285HV flashes all the time on this site? Is there something about them that makes them more desirable than a 580EX II? Seems like a lot of guys who consider themselves strobists use them instead of the Canons, and I haven't ever inquired why until now.

[HiFiGuy1]

Did you mean for the 200mm f/2.8 to be for game shots? If so, why not a 300mm? I had already been thinking a 300mm with a 1.4x would be a great combo for that. I don't see myself ever having the budget for a lens like a 400mm f/2.8, but a 300mm f/2.8 plus a 1.4x TC would be more cost-effective and would give great results with even more flexibility.

I have a 40D and a 300 f/2.8 and have shot some high school football. A 1.4x is really not needed, in fact I find the 300 to be a bit too much sometimes and switch over to a 70-200 trying to follow the action. I do seem to spend quite a bit of time moving around to get a shot (fast paced games) and wind up in the end zone to get a clear view of the action with the 300. In less than perfect field lighting conditions (like at many high school football venues) The 300 f/2.8 is almost too slow, the 1.4x would make it even worse.

Thanks for the input here. I have actually used a 400mm and a 1.5x crop body (Nikon D100) at a HS game, which is effectively 600mm, and it was too long from my perspective, but I wasn't on the field, so I wasn't sure. I also had my 40D with 28-135, but the 135 wasn't long enough, so I figured I'd need something in between, but wasn't sure what. I'd really like an APS-H body like a 1D III or 1D IV, so it mellows the FOVCF a bit. I think it would marry perfectly with the 300mm, for an effective focal length of 390mm, and it has a great focus system for action sports. I agree with the 70-200 f/2.8L IS, too, which would be part of my master lens plan anyway. Initially, at least, I could use that with a 1.4x TC, and that would be almost as long as the 300mm, albeit slower.


The 7D and 1D IV, with the Auto ISO feature, are going to come in really handy for me in this regard, I think, as they would allow a preset f/stop and shutter speed, and would vary the ISO automatically for the necessary exposure. I figure that a slightly noisy shot that is sharply in focus and catches the action is better than a creamy smooth blur of motion, right? []


Ultimately, the two bodies for my other endeavor would be pressed into action here, too, so I could quickly change from the body with the 300 to the other body with the 70-200 and still catch the shot I needed to get, I think.

[peety3]

Are the 5Ds that problematic? Wow.

Nope, but I preach Murphy's law at every opportunity. As they said in the movie GI Jane, "Two means one, one means none." If you go into every job expecting a failed piece of equipment, you will be better able to cope. Sometimes it's the little things - with yucky batteries, my 580EX IIs tend to drop into TTL mode (i.e. not E-TTL II, TTL), which leads to lots of super-overblown shots. I went through three flashes one morning at a shoot (coincidentally my 1D3 wouldn't stop throwing Error 99s, so I had to punt to my Rebel XTi as well). But, there was a trunk full of gear (kryptonite?) very close to the action, so I kept trading out gear until I had stuff I could shoot with. Then it rained.

You are still sticking with the suggestion for continuous lighting, yes? I have been on the road, but I am going to read up on the units that Dallasphotog listed and price them out for my kit. BTW, why do I see the Vivitar 285HV flashes all the time on this site? Is there something about them that makes them more desirable than a 580EX II? Seems like a lot of guys who consider themselves strobists use them instead of the Canons, and I haven't ever inquired why until now.
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I'm leaning towards continuous lighting for price reasons, and to some degree longevity. Canon says you can get 150-700 shots per battery set on a 580. To shoot at f/8 (maybe f/5.6) and reasonable ISOs, you'll probably be living close to full power. Five shots per couple means you can only shoot 30 couples on a set of batteries. If you were shooting my high school prom, you'd need 10 sets of batteries. If you had three flashes (key, fill, background/hair), you're looking at 120 AAs, or $400 in Eneloops. Wanna be booked for two consecutive nights? Plan on another $400 in Eneloops, $400 in chargers, or a combination thereof. Worse, can you really tolerate 10 battery changes in a night? Yes, you could go with the Canon battery packs, dropping you to 5 battery changes in a night, but you still need the $400 in batteries, plus $450 in battery packs and ideally $500 in extra battery trays. Doesn't a pair of $25-50 spare light bulbs sound easier?


The Vivitars are popular for strobists, due to their price tag and feature set, if manual AA flashes are your thing.

[peety3]

Good point about switching between crop factors on the fly, too. That is best left to someone that has much more experience than I, I'm sure.

As mentioned earlier, I rented a 5D1 once as a "complement" to my 1D3. Horrendously different menus, and I felt a need to constantly switch lenses (I had 16-35, 24-70, 70-200). Need to shoot wide? I'd put the 16-35 on the 5D, and 24-70 on the 1D3. Need to shoot tight? I'd put the 70-200 on the 1D3, and the 24-70 on the 5D? Need to shoot wide? You get the idea. Now, try dealing with that while shooting a crowd of 11,000 cyclists anxious to start a 75-mile ride while you're up on a ladder. I'd rather commit the 24-70 to one body, and flip the other body between 16-35 and 70-200 as needed, knowing the bodies are identical. Oh, now hop in a car and drive the 75 miles to catch the action, hiking a mile into a state park to get the shot.

"Know" is a loose application of the term when it comes to my knowledge of my 40D. I am going to take the advice to REALLY learn my equipment, I promise, but I have been shooting more casually so far.

I used to volunteer as a firefighter. The day I was getting final qualifications to drive the ladder truck, I asked the Chief, "how do you decide who's an instructor for new drivers?" His answer: "When you can drive the truck without waking up, we usually figure you can teach others." Next thing I knew, I was an instructor on everything in the fleet except the ladder truck (and the PT Cruiser medic car...still haven't figured out that one).


You should be able to answer many novice questions about DSLRs, and have 1-3 likely causes for the problem as soon as you hear the novice's question. For example, take a look at the recent post about camera often showing "busy".

[Rodger]

My wife says so, too. She thinks I need to do Sr. portraits, since that kind of work is easier to break into than the contracted and pre-planned (by the school admins, usually) event photography. When you say "out the wazoo", what are we talking about here? Keep in mind I am trying to get my feet wet and am trying to build a client base, and would need to charge accordingly for now.

Sorry, I should have been more specific. Some familys will pay big bucks for senior portraits. The going rate around here (Pittsburgh, PA) is about a $200-$350 package wich includes the sitting and a couple prints. I chose to go lower (as a rookie to Sr. portraits). I went with a $50 sitting fee and upped the prices of prints and let the clients build their own packages with CDs email resolution service, etc. Being constrained by a highschool student's schedule of school and a part time job, I've managed to shoot 12 sittings. For me, that's a garunteed $600. If you charge even $150 as a minimum for a package, and take up my humble 12 sittings, you'd earn 1,800. You'd probably be able to take more sittings and charge more though.

Don't know anybody with a Canon body. All my friends shoot Nikon.

Ahh, nothing you can do there I guess. Yeah, I too feel more comfortable using my own gear. Quite understandable!

Why do you not recommend continuous lighting? I am not aware of why you would or would not want to have this. My only awareness of lighting is a flash like a 430 or 580EX, and I have borrowed a Gary Fong LightSphere modifier, which gave me some good results while I had it.

Continuous lights get HOTT in confined areas. Small strobes like the 430EXII or 580EXII are alot more portable also. Battery powered is also quite nice.(Alien Bee flashes are AC powered however). With batteries, you can go pretty much anywhere. I'm not too knowledgable in the continuous lighting realm (and I'm only competent in the flash world haha) but for my purposes, with my budget, a begginers off camera flash setup worked fine for me. I think it would for you also.

If I got a 50, it would be the f/1.4 version, I think. Actually, since the 24-70 zooms, I think I would be better off with that to start.

Makes sense. I'm holding off on a 50 1.4 until I get a 24-70 as well.


Everyone here has great advice, everyone just has different past expiriences and style that play into what advice they give. I'm sure you'll be more than fine following the advice of Peety or Dallas!


-Rodger