Myth busted: Canon's 14-bit snake oil

[DLS]

(raw levels that exceed the maximum precision of photon-shot-noise-limited quantization steps

Wow. Your technical knowledge leaves me in the dust, but thanks for the analogy. I'm going to go and research these terms now.....wheww


Do you think Canon will ammend the software or is there just too much money to be made keeping it the way it is? After all, the proportion of the DSLR market that really cares about thiskind of thingcan't be big enough for Canon to drastically switch up their marketing/design strategy.


Hell, maybe those that care (Canon enthusiasts on this site and others) should form a LOUD and annoying "voice" to persuade Canon to make some changes.


Thanks Daniel.

[Kamelot]

Nice test Daniel. I really appreciate such type of information.


Well...if these all flaws are caused by firmware and not by camera sensor, maybe it is possible to reduce bit-depth and save disk space? For example another independent firmware update like magic lantern.
Or is it too complicated?

[Colin500]

There's so much braindamage in Canon's software development that it's almost overwhelming. 2-year-old startup companies with just a handful of employees have built new cameras from *scratch* that have far, far better software (e.g. RED ONE) and none of the Canon braindamage.

My experience in the software engineering field says that a small team of good people starting out fresh will always produce much better results than ... the others, with too many people, and years, and overhead, and legacy to weigh them down.


As long as most people buy stuff with severe compromises ... there's little use in howling or whining to a corporation to build really good stuff.


I'll remember this thread when it's the next time to buy a camera body, until then I'll ignore it and enjoy my 5D2 ;-)


Colin

[Steve U]

Ahh Danielsan, I find if I am troubled by bit depth, I just don't push as hard when I drill.[]


Seriously interesting thread, I enjoyed the read, I am a bit puffed and having some trouble keeping up. (just kidding, didn't keep up at all, but I likeit when you talkfunny talk)


Erhh gotta go the flux capacitor not intergrating with the discombobulator, aghh.[:S]

[Colin500]

PS: So if the lower 2 or 4 bits are just noise, then recompressing all .cr2 files with the lower 2 or 4 bits eliminated (What

[Steven23]

Aye, i saw a couple reviews on the k-5 and was like, wow...... to recover that highlight. I too have noticed the canon histogram to be funky at times, im scared to trust it half the time. I

[Daniel Browning]

For example another independent firmware update like magic lantern.Or is it too complicated?

Fixing some of these in an independent firmware update like magic lantern would be great. But development is slow when everything needs to be reverse engineered from scratch



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(What's best, setting to 0? to 1? Copying the upper 2 or 4 bits? Repeating the lowest bit that you don't eliminate?)

The best is random -- AKA dithering. It's similar to when Photoshop converts 16-bit to 8-bit -- it will "dither" (add randomness) in that case too. At 12 bits the camera read noise is self is random enough that you can just truncate the last two bits.


Other changes that would greatly reduce raw file size would be to allow the user to separate the embedded JPEG would save several MB from each file, and adding NEF-style level thinning with a LUT that follows photon shot noise would save a ton.



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There is already some software to compress raw files:


http://www.rawzor.com/


The problem is that the format is not supported by raw conveters, so you have to uncompress it to use the files again.




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[Jon Ruyle]

I'll have to make another post some time. Here's a little taste:

I have one to possibly add to the list. Why does Av movie mode not work when exposure simulation is set in live view mode? Is there a reason for that that I'm missing, or is it simply sheer stupidity? Why would the developers do extra work to make something not work properly?

[Alan]

Interesting discussion, but I have to add one thing, and don't take this the wrong way: so what? It's out of our control, out of our hands. I'm not going to lose any sleep over it, like I did when I found out that 16 bit files were really only 15 bit. []


I'm like Colin: I'm going to ignore it and enjoy my 5DMk2 []

[Daniel Browning]

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Why would the developers do extra work to make something not work properly?

Boggles the mind, doesn't it? What's really funny is when they intentionally break a feature when you are using their own Canon lenses, but if you switch to other lenses like Nikon, it works perfectly. (For example, AutoISO on the 5D2 forced to ISO 400 when you're shooting manual with Canon lenses, but if you stick on a Nikon lens with an adapter, the AutoISO starts working. Unless you're in liveview mode, where it does work.) Where is the logic in that?

Interesting discussion, but I have to add one thing, and don't take this the wrong way: so what?

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You've got a point. Too bad this isn't the-digital-complainer.com, then all my whiney complaint posts would be on-topic. [] That said, there are some important benefits to having complainers around -- I think it's good for photographers to be aware of the flaws that affect them. For example, if someone was planning to upgrade to a camera just to get the 14-bit feature, it would be helpful for them to know that it's snake oil.