Lighting advice/recommendations?

[Sean Setters]

<span style="font-family: Verdana; color: #000000; font-size: 9pt;"]<span style="font-family: Verdana; color: #000000; font-size: 9pt;"]The only downside is if you want TTL support. Of all the RF systems I believe the new Pocketwizards are the only ones that support it.



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RadioPopper PX triggers came out way before the new Pocketwizard units. We owe the existance of the new Pocketwizard units to the development of Radiopoppers. Without them, Pocketwizards would have never gotten off their rear-ends to produce such a product. And to date, Radiopoppers are much more reliable in the TTL department than the new Pocketwizards are.


Keep in mind I'm not a fan of the Radiopopper company itself. But I've only heard good things about their PX products.

[Mark Elberson]

Are CyberSyncs&trade; compatible with the:

• Canon 580EX II Speedlite?
• Canon 430EX Speedlite?

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Yes, however you need a way to plug in the Cybersync receiver to the flash. I personally use [url="http://www.flashzebra.com/products/0128/index.shtml]this[/url] from FlashZebra. It allows me to use the Cybersync with all of my flashes (exceptthe Vivitar DF400MZ for some reason). You can even purchase a slave trigger with a miniphone jack that will allow you to fire the flash optically.


I know the 580EX II has a sync port built in, which could be used I'm sure, but I don't know what kind of male cord it requires.
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Thanks Sean!


I know that the 580EX II has a PC input but I didn't think the 430EX had one so I was concerned that they wouldn't work with CyberSyncs&trade;. I am currently having fun with Canon's Wireless (IR) E-TTL. I'veonly used it for macro work so farbut have been really happy with how it has performed. My next purchase will be some light stands and umbrellas for portraiture, etc. It's great to know that if I feel limited by the Wireless (IR) that I can always upgrade to Wireless (RF) and still be able to use all of my Speedlites. If I do buy a Wireless (RF) system it will be CyberSyncs&trade;. I can't justify the price for either the E-TTL enabled PocketWizard or radiopoppers over learning to set my flashes manually. The good news is that I can always practice with what I've got now because Canon's Wireless (IR) can be used with manual flash settings as well.

[Chuck Lee]

<span style="font-size: 9pt; color: #000000; font-family: Verdana;"]As a relative beginner I hate to give up that crutch. I may change my mind/get more competentbefore I get an RF system though.

Jarhead,


That's a bad crutch.


Suggestion: Put your flash in manual 1/2 power, set the camera to manual 1/125th, f8 and fire.


Aperture controls flash exposure: turn aperture up or down to increase/decrease exposure. (this is regardless of shutter speed)


Shutter Speed controls ambient: Turn shutter speed up or down to control ambient mix. That's what E-TTL evaluative/average does in Av mode.


Thisis the initial setupfor a simple 3 flash Vivitar285HV scene:


Main: 60" unmbrella 1/2 power (set as close as possible to subject(s))


Fill: 48" umbrella 1/4 power ( move away to lessen amount of fill)


Halo/Rim Light: Honl 8" snoot 1/16 power.


I'll switch the umbrellas if I want harder key and softer more even fill. I'll shoot thru the 60 to really soften it up.


Camera: ISO 200, f8, 1/125th (adjust shutter to increase/decrease shadow) (adjust aperature to increase/decrease dof) (increase/decrease ISO for overall exposure brightness/offfset an aperture adjustment)


Using TTL as a crutch will never help you understand what is going on with your lights. The time it takes to experiment is negligible and costs nothing except time and batteries (unless you use NiMH)


So, I challenge you to try what I just listed with one - three off-camera lights. I find it's a lot easier than predictingwhat E-TTL is going to do and the cost of a few cactus triggers and few manual flash heads is still less than one 580EXII.


Ask, Sean, he'll agree, it's a piece o' cake. And the benefit is that you know how to control it.


Chuck

[Mark Elberson]

<span style="font-size: 9pt; color: #000000; font-family: Verdana;"]As a relative beginner I hate to give up that crutch. I may change my mind/get more competentbefore I get an RF system though.

Jarhead,


That's a bad crutch.


Suggestion: Put your flash in manual 1/2 power, set the camera to manual 1/125th, f8 and fire.


Aperture controls flash exposure: turn aperture up or down to increase/decrease exposure. (this is regardless of shutter speed)


Shutter Speed controls ambient: Turn shutter speed up or down to control ambient mix. That's what E-TTL evaluative/average does in Av mode.


Thisis the initial setupfor a simple 3 flash Vivitar285HV scene:


Main: 60" unmbrella 1/2 power (set as close as possible to subject(s))


Fill: 48" umbrella 1/4 power ( move away to lessen amount of fill)


Halo/Rim Light: Honl 8" snoot 1/16 power.


I'll switch the umbrellas if I want harder key and softer more even fill. I'll shoot thru the 60 to really soften it up.


Camera: ISO 200, f8, 1/125th (adjust shutter to increase/decrease shadow) (adjust aperature to increase/decrease dof) (increase/decrease ISO for overall exposure brightness/offfset an aperture adjustment)


Using TTL as a crutch will never help you understand what is going on with your lights. The time it takes to experiment is negligible and costs nothing except time and batteries (unless you use NiMH)


So, I challenge you to try what I just listed with one - three off-camera lights. I find it's a lot easier than predictingwhat E-TTL is going to do and the cost of a few cactus triggers and few manual flash heads is still less than one 580EXII.


Ask, Sean, he'll agree, it's a piece o' cake. And the benefit is that you know how to control it.


Chuck
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<span style="font-size: 10pt; color: #000000; font-family: Arial;"]Chuck, <o></o>


<span style="font-size: 10pt; color: #000000; font-family: Arial;"]Thanks for the tips. I know at some point I'm going to make the switch from E-TTL to manual (when it makes sense to). If I'm taking snapshots around the house or at family gatherings and just using one shoe-mounted flash I think E-TTL makes more sense. I always shoot in Manual (camera setting) so that I can control the amount of ambient light and depth of field. Up to this point I have let the flash figure out the exposure (I only recently added more than one Speedlite to my kit) but with off-camera flash and multiple-flash setups I can definitely see the advantage of using manual flash.<o></o>


<span style="font-size: 10pt; color: #000000; font-family: Arial;"]Jarhead and I already have invested in multipleCanon Speedlites (Jarhead has two 430EX Speedlites and I have one 580EX II Speedlite &amp; two 430EX Speedlites) so we can't go back and buy 3 Vivitar 285HV's for what I spent on my Canon 580EX II Speedlite but we can use our already purchased Speedlites and set them in manual. I plan on purchasing <span style="font-family: Arial;"]CyberSyncs&trade; when I'm ready to take the plunge.<o></o>


<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"]For all others out there who don't have $$$ already invested in Canon Speedlites (and are feeling brave [:P]) I would suggest taking Chuck's advice and purchasing 3 Vivitar 285HV's and RF slaves to fire them. I don't regret my decision one bit though (although I admittedly spent more money) because it affords me the utmost in flexibility for I can easily do either (IR) E-TTL or (RF) Manual flash setups.

[Mark Elberson]

....adjust shutter to increase/decrease shadow

Sorry if this isa dumb question but will a faster or slower shutter speed result in decreasedshadows?

[Sean Setters]

Adjusting the shutter speed will regulate how much ambient light gets exposed in your image. So in effect, a slower shutter speed will decrease the darkness of the shadows ifthere isambient light (which is most of the time, I imagine).

[Jarhead5811]

RadioPopper PX triggers came out way before the new Pocketwizard units. We owe the existance of the new Pocketwizard units to the development of Radiopoppers. Without them, Pocketwizards would have never gotten off their rear-ends to produce such a product. And to date, Radiopoppers are much more reliable in the TTL department than the new Pocketwizards are.


Keep in mind I'm not a fan of the Radiopopper company itself. But I've only heard good things about their PX products.

That's good to know.

That's a bad crutch.
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Yea, the more I think about it the more I think I'll put off getting an RF system until I'm up to speed on manual flash use. I already shoot almost entirely with the camera in manual.


To my understanding there wouldn't be a problem using my 430EXs with a mixture of manual only flashes, would there? How does the power output of the Vivitar285HV you mentioned compare to the 430EXand 580EX?

[Chuck Lee]

Mark,


Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that one should shoot manual all the time. When I'm covering a reception, family event, etc. I use TTL flash and usually shoot in manual or Av mode. If it's fairly bright inside I'll use evaluative from time to time. Though, I have to admit that the last couple of family parties I was at I did a two light, corner to corner crosslight deal. That required manual. It's sort of funny, the more I shoot flash the more I gravitate towards manual control. Come to think of it, I don't havea TTL flash in my bag right now, just a 285HV with a cactus trigger attached. If you've never shot manual with a Thyristor flash, I suggest you try it. TTL has noth'n on accurate, repeatable flash exposure. I'm rambln'


When it comes to multi-light setups I would be completely confused at how TTL would work. I guess the ratio between lights would come from some sort of Exposure Compensation setting on each flash. That would be the same as manually setting the power output of my Vivitars. You can always modify with diffusers, umbrellas, distance, etc.to tweak the power, direction, shape etc.


You guys have some killer flash units that have more power and capability than my inexpensive Vivitar setup. TTL via RF is quite amazing, but Icannot find the value (cost/benefit) of using these devices. Now, if someone can show mesome major benefits of a TTL-RF based light system over the manual one I use right now then I'm all ears!!


Now, I sort of think the crutch is the other way around.


Chuck

[Chuck Lee]

The 580EXII (And also the SB-800) has got the highest output and quickest recycling time of any flash on the market. It's the bomb. I believe the specs on the 420EX are about the same. The 285HV is pretty strong, I believe GN 140 as compared to the 580 GN 180. You have to remember that that is at full zoom on both heads. The 285 has a manual pull head with three locations and an extra diffuser for wide angle. The 420 and 580 are both motorized. The 580 and 420(I believe)can both do high speed strobe flash. I think only Nixon strobes can do this as well. No other third party strobe has this capablity to sync higher than 1/250th. (1/200th on 5D)


You are correct that you can use your strobes in manual mode. The added benefit of using the nice Canon strobes is the short recycling rate. I added lead acid batteries to my Vivitars to help them along. I get 1 sec recycle at 1/2 power and around 4 sec at full.


Another wonderful thing about Canon flashes or the SB series by Nikon is that the flash power can be adjusted in 1/2 or 1/3 stop increments. My Vivitars limit me to Full, 1/2,1/4,1/16. I don't even get a 1/8th so the flash jumps two stops on the last two settings. There is a wonderful thing called neutral density gel that takes care of that. But it can be somewhat time dependent.


Yeap, this is a good thread. Happy to participate. Jarhead, don't forget to spend some time with Dave Hobby over at strobist.com. His material is free and worth every penny of it.


Chuck

[Mark Elberson]

Mark,


Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that one should shoot manual all the time
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<p style="CLEAR: both"]No worries Chuck [] Sorry if I came off as defensive! I've really been enjoying this thread as off-camera flash is a subject that I am very interested in. I can't wait to get my feet wet with some manual setups!!