Help Wanted -- 5D Mark II or 1D Mark IV?

[Chris White]

Brendan, please do not think I am selling the 7D short. to quote Bryan the 7D is:


"best APS-C sensor-sized DSLR Canon has ever produced"


Although I may come to embrace it, video is not a priority for me. I get very usable images at 1600 ISO, so an improvement -- which all three will do -- would be an asset. I cannot speak to the ergonomics, other than to say I am very pleased with my gripped 50D. I am one who wants the grip, so my first purchase for the 7D (5D also) would be a grip and second battery, which chips a little into the $3000.

I agree with you Chris that it isn't based on need. same old same old [img]/emoticons/emotion-20.gif[/img]

The best take-away is that I can even entertain these thoughts.

5DmkII to 7D: "You complete me."


7D to 5DmkII: "You had me at hello."


Canon said: "Show Me the Money!"

How happy do you think the 5D Mark II and the 1D Mark IV would be together??


Just wondering...

[Keith B]

How happy do you think the 5D Mark II and the 1D Mark IV would be together??


Just wondering...

I don't know never saw that movie. But I suspect pretty well. Of course Canon will expect you to show them a lot more money.


5DmkII and 7D playing in my Pelican case daily. Dinner (meat and potatoes) and a show.

[Chris White]

How happy do you think the 5D Mark II and the 1D Mark IV would be together??


Just wondering...
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I don't know never saw that movie. But I suspect pretty well. Of course Canon will expect you to show them a lot more money.


5DmkII and 7D playing in my Pelican case daily. Dinner (meat and potatoes) and a show.
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Who does not want money from me these days?


Do you ever try to use your 5DmkII for slower action, such as a school play?

[Jon Ruyle]

Chris-


I faced a similar choice long ago- but it was between the 1DIIN and the 5D (original). There was no 7D option back then, of course.


I went with the 1DIIN, and while I'm not exactly sorry I got it (especially now that I have a 5DII and the 1DIIN compliments it far better than a 5D would), I don't think I made the correct choice. I wanted mostly to take macro pictures and pictures of the kids. I reasoned that the kids move quickly and that I needed the best autofocus I could get. In my case, however, it turned out that most of my best pictures were of still kids (portraits) rather than action photos. In addition, I took a lot of pictures in low light, and the 5DII would have given me better high ISO performance.


As to your specific questions:

Does anyone have an opinion on how the 1D Mark IV
does in low light compared to the 5D Mark II?

Plenty of people do. Instead of an opinion, though, I'll give you some numbers. DXOMark gives the 5DII a score of 1815 and the 1DIV a score of 1320. Basically this means (if you believe the folks at DXOMark, and I haven't met anyone who doesn't) that the 5DII sensor at ISO1815 has about as much noise as the 1DIV sensor at ISO1320 (in other words, it will give you the same image in 2/3 the light). The 5DII probably has more pattern noise at very high ISO (or in very dark areas at moderately high ISO). 5DII pattern noise is an issue for some, but hasn't been a big deal for me under ISO 6400.

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I know the 1D Mark IV has the better AF system
in general, but how is it in low light?

The 1DIV af will work better in low light. It is rated to work in 1/2 stop lower light, and has more af points (which makes it easier for one to lock on).


This said, I've been very happy with the 5DII af performance in low light (I was not happy with how the 1DIIN worked in low light... it is rated a full stop worse in this regard than the 1DIV, though, with the 5DII halfway between the two)

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How do images from the 1.3 H sensor compare to
the full frame, especially cropped?

The effect of sensor size on image quality has been long and bitterly debated on this site and elsewhere (maybe not so bitterly, but it sounds dramatic so what the heck). My opinion based on experience using the 1DIIN and the 5DII is that the larger sensor gives significantly better image quality. Either will give better IQ than the 50D. We all know from experience how much impact cropping has on IQ. (Of course, it isn't quite that simple: there are other differences besides sensor size. For one thing, the 1DIV has a higher pixel density than the 5DII).


Basically, IMO, it just comes down to better low light performance and thinner DOF with the full frame camera, vs. a better tracking autofocus on the 1DIV. (You haven't mentioned desire for wide angle performance, but both the 7D and 5DII (and your 50D for that matter) have the edge here over the 1DIV)


I've never used the 1DIV, but I would definitely choose the 5DII for non-moving subjects. I would choose the 1DIV for sports or other photography involving fast moving objects.


In your position, I would buy a 5DII first, then a 7D (instead of a 1DIV). That way you get the absolute best canon has to offer for non moving subjects, and something very very good for moving subjects. And the combination is far more versatile than the 1DIV alone.


Best of luck.

[Keith B]

Do you ever try to use your 5DmkII for slower action, such as a school play?

I use my 5DII for 90% of what I do. The 7D is a second/backup/sports camera. My new favorite thing with events (when I can move around freely anyway) is 5DII/35 1.4L and 7D/85 1.2L.


I've shot my son's Jazz band concerts with 5DII. That would be similar to school play it does really well, although the outer AF points will search a bit. Usually you are far enough away that the center point and recompose will work well enough.The 70-200 2.8 IS left a little something (faster aperture) to be desired. I wish I had got to shoot one with the 85 1.2II this year but I'll have to wait until next year.

[Alan]

If you needed a 1D Mark IV you wouldn't be asking this question.


Anyways, I suggest you buy the 7D and 5D2. The 7D does 95% of what the 1D4 does for $3000 less. Use that $3000 to buy the 5D2 and you have 2 great bodies -- a great action body and a superb portrait body. BTW, both ARE weather-sealed: I've used my 7D and a friend's 5D2 in snow and heavy rain. No problem.
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Seconded.
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I'm coming late to this party, but as an owner of the 7D and 5D2.....


Thirded...[]


Is there such a word?

[mikehillman89]

I'm coming late to this party, but as an owner of the 7D and 5D2.....


Thirded...[img]/emoticons/emotion-1.gif[/img]


Is there such a word?
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There is now apparently... Wow so my BB has been off the hook all day today! I'm gone for a few hours and all these posts happen that I want to reply to!!! For all you Canadian folks out there get a 7D now for only $1850 with a grip and extra battery!

[Chris White]

Alan thanks for thirding, according to the spell check it is not a word, but I will accept it.


Jon, thank you for your real world experience and your point by point reply.


I did not put a poll up but if I had I think the order of recommendation thus far would be:

1. 5DII
2. 7D
3. 1DIV

I thought the 1DIV would be higher. I do know that the people with 5DII's always rave about them. The 7D seems equally loved. I do see the logic in the 5DII and 7D combo. I could add grips and extra batteries and still have a good deposit towards another L lens for the 1DIV cost. And selling the 50D would pretty much close any remaining glass deficit. On the other hand, junior is already eying up the 50D.


I am going to monitor this thread through the weekend as I weigh the options. I am leaning towards the 5DII right now, which is what I was thinking when I started this thread. Right now the 5DII is $400 less than a year ago and even if a 5DIII came out next month, it would most likely be priced back at the original 5DII price or higher. Only Canon and the Good Lord know that plan. Moreover the 5DII would still be a great camera and I could have it in my hands in time to shoot my daughter's dance recital, not insignificant to me.


Chris

[Chris White]

Jon, also, what did you use for your butterfly photos in the what did you shoot this week forum? I am guessing the 5DII, but what lens? They are great! It is the kind of thing I am looking to do with my kids. When I look back at the images I have of them from my 50D, I have to say what ever I do going forward, that body is worth every nickel I paid for it.


Chris

[Jon Ruyle]

Correct, all three were shot with the 5DII. The first two were shot with the 100mm macro (non-IS), both at f/8 and
ISO800. The other was done with the 24-105 f/4, 105mm @ f/5, ISO 200.


I know how you feel about the 50D... it's a good feeling when a piece of equipment has been used enough that one thinks it is already worth the price. After that the rest is gravy