Does price trump all?

[Cory]

In this case you are mistaken. The seller is only responsible to collect taxes if they have a physical presence (e.g. brick and mortar store) in the same state as the buyer. Of course, many states are trying to get legislation passed to change that (unsuccessfully, so far).

Therefore only people ordering their equipment from a business which also has a brick and mortar store fall under your original statement. Don't mean to nit pick, but youfairly generically stated anyone in California purchasing anything out of state was evading taxes. Most those talking about mail order have not stated where they are making their purchases. Ifsomeone in Cali is ordering from someone like B&H(a New York store) they are doing nothing wrong.


I'm in Washington, but I can't think of any company that is in my own state that I would end up mail ordering something from other than Amazon (and they are kind of an exception as they ONLY do mail order). An interesting question might be: If someone in Cali is ordering something from Amazon and Amazon is re-sellingit from a retailer in Cali... what are the legal responsibilities? Heh


Having to pay tax on orders from a business which has stores in your state I can see having to pay tax on, but the efforts to try and make people pay taxes on mail order purchases made from companies in other states is going too far. What happens if you WALK IN to Camera store in south Oregon buy a lens, then drivehome to northern Cali? Are they going to make you start paying taxes on that too? I don't see that they have any right to attempt to collect taxes on purchases like that.

[Cory]

Double posted. [:O]

[Daniel Browning]

Therefore only people ordering their equipment from a business which also has a brick and mortar store fall under your original statement.

You have it backwards. Online sellers with a location in your state *are* required to collect sales tax, and they always do. Web sites with no such location are *not* required to collect sales tax, so most of them don't.


When they don't collect the salestax, you are liable to send it in for yourself.

Don't mean to nit pick, but youfairly generically stated anyone in California purchasing anything out of state was evading taxes.

No. When someone buys out of state from a web site that charges sales tax, of course they are not evading taxes. They paid them at the time of sale. It's only when they don't pay the taxes at the end of the year (or within 1 month in some states) that they have evaded taxes.


In my post I specifically quoted and responded to the following:
<p style="padding-left: 30px;"]"I will buy all my lenses and
bodies from out of state stores with no sales tax (in california its
close to 10% right now)"

Ifsomeone in Cali is ordering from someone like B&amp;H(a New York store) they are doing nothing wrong.

Of course they are doing nothing wrong. As long as they calculate their tax liability and send a check to their state DOR. If they don't, then they are evading taxes illegally.

I'm in Washington, but I can't think of any company that is in my own state that I would end up mail ordering something from other than Amazon (and they are kind of an exception as they ONLY do mail order).

Howdy, neighbor! I live in Washington, too (Vancouver).


When you and I buy from Amazon.com, they charge us salestax at the time of purchase, so we don't have to calculate the tax and send in the form. But if we buy from all the other online web sites that don't charge sales tax, we are held liable to send the amount in directly to the Washington State Dept of Revenue ourselves by the 15th of the following month.


This is the form you are supposed to be filing every month, twelve times a year:


Washington State Consumer Use Tax Return Form


If you buy something on the 31st, you only have 15 days to send in the form before it becomes overdue and you become liable for penalties and interest. (Of course, most people have been buying things out of state without paying use tax for decades, so you can imagine the amount they owe!) Here is their little brochure about it:


Washington State Use Tax Brochure


The fact that you (and 99.9% of all of us Washingtonians) are evading taxes illegally is indisputable. Of course, you'll never get caught. And until now you didn't even know you were doing it. But that doesn't change the fact that it is illegal tax evasion, just like your boss paying you under the table instead of reporting your income to the IRS.


EDIT: [I see you edited your post with a few more questions. Here are the answers:]

An interesting question might be: If someone in
Cali is ordering something from Amazon and Amazon is re-sellingit from
a retailer in Cali... what are the legal responsibilities? Heh

It's simple. If Amazon collects the sales tax, then you don't have to do anything. If they don't, and the retailer in Cali doesn't either, then you have to send in the salestax yourself.

Having to pay tax on orders from a business which
has stores in your state I can see having to pay tax on, but the
efforts to try and make people pay taxes on mail order purchases made
from companies in other states is going too far.

Fair has nothing to do with it. I'm talking about what's *legal*. If you want to illegally evade taxes because you think the taxes are unfair, that's your choice. But it doesn't change the fact that you are still evading taxes illegally.

What happens if you
WALK IN to Camera store in south Oregon buy a lens, then drivehome to
northern Cali?

You must track the full amount that you spent, calculate what the tax rate would have been if you bought it locally (the city and zipcode where you put it "into use"), then send that amount into the state within one month. (Washington allows 15 days after the start of the next month, I'm not sure how much time California gives you, but certainly no more than 1 year.)

Are they going to make you start paying taxes on that
too?

"Start"? It has been that way for decades! The rise of mail order catalogs, TV buying, and Internet purchases have only increased the frequency with which people evade taxes.

I don't see that they have any right to attempt to collect taxes
on purchases like that.

Well, your personal views don't change the fact that it's tax evasion. If you want to see it changed, you'll have to change how you vote or get politically active about it.

[George Slusher]

Howdy, neighbor! I live in Washington, too (Vancouver).

Where, of course, a favorite pastime is to drive across the Columbia River to Oregon (where I live), which has no sales tax. (Alas, we do have an income tax, though I usually don't have to pay any state income taxes, as about 92% of my military pension is not taxable by Oregon.) There's a big "outlet" mall south of Portland that does a bang-up business. The two times I've been there, it seemed that about half the cars had Washington plates.


I lived in California 1/87-5/94. I was legally a resident of Virginia and paid income taxes there, but I was subject to California's use tax for stuff I ordered from outside the state. In those days, it wasn't much, but, today, it could be considerable.


An RV dealer in my general area got into serious trouble a few years ago by helping buyers avoid paying taxes on RVs. The dealer would set up a PO box address for the buyer to use in registering the RV in Oregon, instead of California, say, which has a high annual tax on vehicles. The dealer got in trouble with Oregon and the Feds. No one went to jail, but the dealer did pay hefty fines and the RV owners had to pay back taxes plus interest and penalties.

[Cory]

It is interesting that this exact scenario is talked about very widely and quite openly locally. People will organize groups and even short vacations to do things like Christmas shopping. And yet... I've never heard a single mention that it might get you in trouble. You'd think it this was so blatantly illegal people wouldn't litterally "work in Washington" (i.e. live in Vancover) and "Shop in Oregon" (i.e. even their grocery shopping is done in Portland).

[Daniel Browning]

Where, of course, a favorite pastime is to drive across the Columbia River to Oregon (where I live), which has no sales tax.

Yes indeed! Most people have to go online to evade sales tax illegally, but for Vancouver residents it's just a quick 10-minute drive! What makes Vancouver even more special is that we don't have any income tax, so there is no annual return to fill out where tax evaders must perjure themselves by saying they never bought anything out of state.

It is interesting that this exact scenario
is talked about very widely and quite openly locally. People will
organize groups and even short vacations to do things like Christmas
shopping. And yet... I've never heard a single mention that it might
get you in trouble.

Yes, it is interesting, isn't it?

You'd think it this was so blatantly illegal
people wouldn't litterally "work in Washington" (i.e. live in Vancover)
and "Shop in Oregon" (i.e. even their grocery shopping is done in
Portland).

You'd think so, huh? But those are the facts. I like to bring it up because I find it fascinating that so many people (99% IMHO) engage in hundreds or thousands of dollars of tax evasion every year. Most of them do it unknowingly, of course. They don't realize that it's the exact same as accepting money from your boss "under the table" without reporting or paying tax on it.

[elmo_2006]

*It's all about balance*...


Find the right price and thena reputable retailer, i.e. BHPhoto or Adarama or in Canada; Henry's or Camera Canada.


Hope this helps...

[Joel Eade]

I believe you are correct Daniel....


I live in Kentucky......several years ago my business was audited by the state and the only thing they found was that we had ordered a small quantity of office supplies from an out-of-state internet site and we failed to pay Kentucky sales tax on that transaction. It was a very small amount of money and they didn't penalize us. (but they could have)


According to the auditor they find this problem frequently and, as you said, most people don't even realize it's required to track those transactions and pay the tax. I suspect state governmentswill eventuallyfocus more attentionon this problem. You can bet they know how much money is involved.