Buying 7D - My shopping list Opinions/Criticisms please

[JJphoto]

I shoot a lot of eagles and I think this will serve me very well

Homer, I reread all the posts in this thread, I could not find there was anybody ever suggested you to get 70-200mm 2.8II or 70-200mm 2.8II+1.4TC for bird/wild life.

I am at the point in my life(Over 50) that nothing beats quaility and if it is in my buget to go for it

it's not about quality or money, homer, the 70-200mm2.8II is sure very nice, it's just not ideal for bird/wild life, because it is not long enough and maybe the AF is not fast enough(just guess, cause I never use it) and these two facts are very important for bird/wild life. in the given price range, I think 300mm 4.0, 400mm 5.6, 100-400mm and even a used 300mm 2.8 should be a better choice.


I know you are on fire now, if that's the way to learn, go for it, the good thing about buying a lens (good lens) is that if you don't like it later, you can always sell it for just a little lose.


happy buying and shooting, don't forget to post some pictures of eagles, I'm interesting to see them!

[JJphoto]

I think what im trying to say is live in the real world. I stopped chasing technology, buy used gear, save a fortune and dont need the %5 improvement this model has over the last. I dont print bigger than A3 so dont notice any differance in my lens choice from old to new. Will my human eye detect the differance between the new lens to old printed at A3? No.

[Y][Y][Y]


May I call you buddy, Mick?


however, only living in the real world is kind of boring. the fantasy would has a lot of fun. I like to live in the real world but go to the fantasy world once a while[:P]

[Daniel Browning]

Homer, I reread all the posts in this thread, I could not find there was anybody ever suggested you to get 70-200mm 2.8II or 70-200mm 2.8II+1.4TC for bird/wild life.

I recommended the 70-200 f/2.8 II + 2X TC. It's the only weather sealed option, and the quality is still pretty good.

in the given price range, I think 300mm 4.0, 400mm 5.6, 100-400mm,and even a used 300mm 2.8 should be a better choice.

Well, none of those are weather sealed except the 300mm f/2.8, and none of them have the four-stop I.S. and other nice features of the 70-200. I think he made the right choice.



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[JJphoto]

OK, Daniel, I can't argue with you[]

recommended the 70-200 f/2.8 II + 2X TC. It's the only weather sealed option, and the quality is still pretty good.

I have to say I didn't think about weather seal too much, if that's the priority, I'll agree with you. I would like to see the" pretty good" results from anybody in a constant basis from the 70-200 2.8II+2XTC combo, see if that will change my mind, the reason I say that is because I took some bird pictures with 7D,300mm2.8,2XTCII combo, I didn't like most of the pictures cause the IQ got degraded very much, they were not considered "pretty good " to me even for a web sized picture. here is the example. I used tripod to take this shot. I also found that this combo(300mm 2.8+2.0TC) can't effectively track fast moving birds(e.g. turns) because the 2XTC makes the speed of AF a lot slower. who care about weather seal if you can't even make the bird in focus? or constantly making low grade pictures?I want to say it again, 70-200mmII is very nice but it just not ideal for bird/wildlife, cause it's just too short and slower AF, at least I don't want to spent more then $2500 on a lens and TC that only make" pretty good "quality pictures[]


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and none of them have the four-stop I.S

I will agree with you too if this is another priority for bird/wild life, , but I don't think it is. shooting in field usually has lots of lights and you can always use flash or tripod to help. 400mm 5.6 has no IS, but it's a well-known lens for BIF. Nate has a lot of great bird pictures(not just BIF, and he always hand helding) took with this lens, I would hardly believe that the IQ from 70-2002.8II or with 2.0TC combo will be better than the IQ from 400mm 5.6 in a constant basis if we talking about bird/wildlife.


if weather seal and IS are not the priority, then what's the whole purpose of choosing version II over version I? the IQ right? isn't that the version I +400mm5.6 a lot better than version II+ TCII in the whole range of 70-400 if we talking about bird/wildlife for a given price range?


then again, I'm still very new in this photography thing, I don't mean to argue with you , please correct me if I'm wrong, Daniel , I'm willing to learn, thanks.


Damn, It's so late now, I'll be very sleepy tomorrow at work![:@]
















































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[Kayaker72]

Took the plunge. Could not wait as fall is here and cannot miss all the fall colors and all theopportunities .

Hey Homer. Congrats. That is an awesome kit, and now (or later this week) you can be taking pictures rather than waiting to take pictures. In my mind, that is a verygood thing.


In addition to what you've already talked about, it looks like you dropped the 50 f1.4 prime and a circular polarized filter. If you can still swing it, the circular polarized filter would be great for "fall colors." Also, you mention a "lens cleaning kit." It is only ~$10, but I've really liked the "lens pen" that was recommended to me.


I am looking forward to seeing some of your pics. Vancouver Island is beautiful. My family used to vacation in Victoria and Tofino.


Brant

[bob williams]

Currently I am in information overload reading thousand of reviews etc.

Sounds like you did some pretty good research and built a very nice kit here. But I would lke to offer you a couple of more things to talk about:


1. I have never heard anything good about the 2x extender. Though you cite the new one here, my guess is that it will be a little better than the current one, but still significantly damageing to IQ. I would suggest you consider the 1.4 extender instead of the 2X.


2. Dark cloudy days----wheres the tripod? Very very important. I never fully appreciated the IQ of my lenses until I started forcing myself to use a tripod----and a very good tripod is strongly suggested, even if you were to give up one of the lenses. Here is "something else" to add to your information overload bank: http://bythom.com/support.htm . Seriosly, my gitzo tripod did more to improve my photography than any of my lenses.


Good luck


Bob

[Daniel Browning]

I took some bird pictures with 7D,300mm2.8,2XTCII combo, I didn't like most of the pictures cause the IQ got degraded very much, they were not considered "pretty good " to me even for a web sized picture.

I'm surprised to hear that. I've seen photos from the 300mm f/2.8 L IS with a 2X TC, another 2X TC, and a 1.4X TC (all stacked at once for shot of the moon) and the 100% crop (on a 5D, if I recall) *still* had contrast from pixel to pixel.

the 2XTC makes the speed of AF a lot slower.

That's true -- makes it less accurate, too. Also darkens the viewfinder and if you don't have IS it makes the viewfinder a lot more shakey. These effects will be smaller with the 1.4X that Homer ended up getting.


If you compare 2X TC versus cropping, on the 70-200 f/2.8 L IS II, the 2X TC wins for image quality by a mile. Not only does it have far more detail and contrast, but it will have less noise. For example:


70-200 IS II with 2X TC = 400mm f/5.6 1/250 ISO 6400


vs.


70-200 IS II with no TC = 200mm f/2.8 1/250 ISO 1600 (cropped to the same angle of view)


Some people would think that the ISO 1600 shot is going to have less noise than the ISO 6400 shot. In fact, the reverse is true! Less noise in low light is one of the advantages of the TC.

I would hardly believe that the IQ from 70-2002.8II or with 2.0TC combo will be better than the IQ from 400mm 5.6 in a constant basis if we talking about bird/wildlife.

Agreed. If we set aside weather sealing, and he got the 400mm f/5.6, then he could only use it when there's enough light for hand-holding speeds (at least 1/640 on the 7D, personally I would want over 1/1000). If he needs 1/2000 to get a tack-sharp photo on the 7D+400mm f/5.6, then he could use 1/125 or 1/250 with the 70-200.


If he got the 100-400, he would have to make do with the older 2-stop IS, miss the 70-100 range, and make do with worse quality/bokeh/autofocus in the 100-200 range. Wildlife is only 30% of what he's shooting.

if weather seal and IS are not the priority, then what's the whole purpose of choosing version II over version I? the IQ right?

Yes.



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isn't that the version I +400mm5.6 a lot better than version II+ TCII in the whole range of 70-400 if we talking about bird/wildlife for a given price range?

Yes.

[Daniel Browning]

1. I have never heard anything good about the 2x extender. Though you cite the new one here, my guess is that it will be a little better than the current one, but still significantly damageing to IQ.

I kindly disagree. Most people make flawed comparisons when it comes to TC: first they shoot with the TC, then they take it off and move closer to take a shot without the TC. The quality is definitely much higher if I move closer -- but that's not the time when I'm supposed to use TC. I'm supposed to use it when I can't move closer. In order to simulate this in a comparison, it's necessary to compare TC vs cropping. On a sharp lens like the 70-200 II, the 2X TC is definitely more detailed than cropping. Especially so if I correct the chromatic aberration in post.



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I would suggest you consider the 1.4 extender instead of the 2X.

FWIW, he did end up getting the 1.4, though I still think the 2X is more useful for wildlife.

2. Dark cloudy days----wheres the tripod? Very very important.

Agreed.

[Homer]

Comments have been great and is why i chose to sign up only to this fourm, keep them coming. Always all quality comments and some of my decisions made were from posts reading many topicson this fourm.


I did not decide to get the 50mm asI wanted it for video but my first interestis learning to use the 7D asI did buy it for taking pictures. I will use what I saved to get a monopod and some decent books as suggested. No polarizer lens yet as adds a level of skill I know I am not ready for.


I plan to just use the 24-105 until I learn the basic/advanced7D functions andfeatures before I move on. Once I feel comfortable and getting some decent shots, will I change lenses. I am jumping in with both feet but don't want to drown myself.


I did want the EX2 II extender but from what I read most were not that impressed as they were with the EX1.4 II. Choices I saw were. wait for the reviiews of the new EX2III version and then decide or buy now at a reduced price a 1.4 that performed much better than the current 2.0 and the 1.4AF was also better. Both new versions sre supposed to have improvement in this. I bought the 1.4 now and will see in spring what the reviews say andthan buy a EX2 ?


2 more sleeps


Homer

[JJphoto]

I'm surprised to hear that.

I have discussed 300mm 2.8+TCII here earlier, based on my experience, I found that the 2XTC maybe more useful for the effect of compressing than for getting more reach. sure I understand it's a subjective thing.

If you compare 2X TC versus cropping,

I didn't compare that but It's really good to know that TCs are better than cropping( I knew I will learn something if you reply, in fact I have learned a lot from your posts, thanks)

then he could use 1/125 or 1/250 with the 70-200.

I guess you are not talking about shooting birds right?

if weather seal and IS are not the priority, then what's the whole purpose of choosing version II over version I? the IQ right?

Yes.

isn't that the version I +400mm5.6 a lot better than version II+ TCII in the whole range of 70-400 if we talking about bird/wildlife for a given price range?

Yes.














thanks Daniel, it's my pleasure to have you agree with me!


so the question is "is weather sealed that really important so you even want to loss that much IQ to get weather sealed?" I live in southern California, the weather here is just very nice, so maybe it's a big deal in Canada?