I am jealous of CLS, CANON sort it out, the flash system needs to get better!

[richscorer]

Ok in the last 6-12 months I have got more in to the Strobist vibe.


Canon's glassis great. 5D mark 2 is debatably the best camera on the market.


But STE-2 = OLD, no proper control over C channel, really bad wireless signal etc....


580ex2 = Power but not all that many features, Compared to a SB-900 it ain't that great.


I love my 5Dm2, I love my L series glass. I am based in the UK so I still have to wait for the Pocket Wizard release to solve my wireless problems!


Just like to add my 2 penny's worthmainly becauseI am getting annoyed with the Wishlist I want a Canon 24-200 f1.2, USM, IS L (when people don't think about the actual size and cost that it would be)


But a simple reinvigoration to the flash system would be easy and welcome!


Apologies to all for the rant, I need to drink less coffee and do something different with my lunch break!

[Jarhead5811]

<span style="font-size: 9pt; color: black; font-family: Verdana;"]I agree, it seemsthat at leastthe higher end cameras should have this function included. The Nikon CLS system can use the onboard flash to trigger remote flashes. The 580EX uses visible flash to trigger slaves (the ST-E2uses "near infared" light). It seems that it would then just be a firmware fix to get the same functionality the CLS system provides to a Canon body <span style="font-family: Verdana;"]BUT, keep in mind it is still an optical based system and all of the other problems you have with the Canon Wireless System are true with CLS and would continue to be true if Canon moved in that direction. <o></o>


<span style="font-size: 9pt; color: black; font-family: Verdana;"]Now,a native Canon Radio Frequency (RF) System would be the real bee's knees.


<span style="font-size: 9pt; color: black; font-family: Verdana;"]I prefer lessgear and a simpler setups. Some setups I read about sound like working with legos. Except for the outrageous cost the 430EXs,ST-E2andImpact Digital Flash Umbrella Mount Kit from B&amp;Hcost about the same as one Quantum Flash.<o></o>

[peety3]

Ok, in the last 6-12 months I have gotten more into the Strobist vibe.


Canon's glassis great. 5D Mark II is debatably the best camera on the market.


But ST-E2 = OLD, no proper control over C channel, really bad wireless signal etc....


580EX II = Power but not all that many features. Compared to a SB-900 it ain't that great.


I love my 5Dm2, I love my L-series glass. I am based in the UK so I still have to wait for the Pocket Wizard release to solve my wireless problems!


Just like to add my two penny's worth, mainly becauseI am getting annoyed with the wishlist, I want a Canon 24-200 f1.2, USM, IS L (when people don't think about the actual size and cost that it would be)


But a simple reinvigoration to the flash system would be easy and welcome!


Apologies to all for the rant, I need to drink less coffee and do something different with my lunch break!
<div style="clear: both;"]</div>

Your subject says you're jealous of CLS, but you don't mention any faults of Canon's wireless E-TTL system. I'm not saying there aren't any faults, but I'm asking what you think the Canon system is missing. I haven't used CLS, but have read McNally's Hot Shoe Diaries, and I don't think I want Nikon's version of exposure compensation (-1EC drops the ambient and flash by one stop. If you want the ambient down a stop, you need -1EC and +1FEC. In Canon-world, it's just -1EC and the flash stays at -0-.)


If you want better triggering range, consider the 580EX II as your trigger.


As far as your lens, give up now. A 200/1.2 would need a 166mm opening. The current "big white primes" are 100, 107, 143, 125, 150, and 143mm. The OOP 1200/5.6 needed a 214mm opening, and fluorite lenses took 18 months to grow that big. Oh, you want to zoom something that big? Yeah right. The largest opening of a Canon zoom is 71mm.

[Jarhead5811]

<span style="font-size: 9pt; color: black; font-family: Verdana;"]I think he was just saying that relative to the unrealisticthings people want (i.e. Canon 24-200 f1.2, USM, IS L) he wanted something relatively simple (CLS type control included in a Canon body).<o></o>

[Chuck Lee]

Ok in the last 6-12 months I have got more in to the Strobist vibe.

Not to cut in on your rant but if you'll notice 90% of the off-camera lighting is done with manual control. Canon and Nikon TTL have no advantage in this world. El-Cheapo Vivitar 285's with cactus triggers is all you need to be a strobist. Though, I believe you are talking more about output control than light balancing. In other words, I think you are saying that you'd like to be able to control the flash compensation on several strobes through a wireless system that is controlled from a menu on the camera body. Hence this statement:

I am based in the UK so I still have to wait for the Pocket Wizard release to solve my wireless problems!

Why? I use Cactus V2s from Gadget Infinity and Sean Setters uses Cybersyncs from Paul C. Buff.We both shootoff camera flash with manual flash. Both of these systems are inexpensive and reliable. Cybersyncs more so.

But a simple reinvigoration to the flash system would be easy and welcome!

Yes, but in the mean time...........................


If you are going to be a strobist than you must cut the umbillical chord to a dedicated, "do it all for you" flash system.


I do confess that Ihave a wired controller for my AB studio lights which has sliders and allows me to adjust the output power of four seperate strobes from one spot. Monoblocks with large Octaboxes and snooted backlights at 10+ ft in the air they're a little more difficult to adjust manually. P.C. Buff is still working on a camera mounted 16 chan. wireless version. This, I believe, is what your're asking for built in to the camera and flash units.


But, sometimes, just getting back to the simple basics can teach us alot. I know I've learned a ton using AB studio lights and manual flashes. I learned alot of great stuff from Dave Hobby over at strobist.comand feel extremely confident shooting almost anything with off-camera manual flash. With digital cameras we have built in light meters and instant feedback with histograms. (if you can call the screen on a 5D feedback) It boils down to a few test shots to adjust the lights and camera and Bob's your uncle!


So, why wait and rant. Use what's available. It's very affordable and yields excellent results!!


Examples:


http://community.the-digital-picture.com/forums/t/1739.aspx


http://community.the-digital-picture.com/forums/t/1614.aspx


http://community.the-digital-picture.com/forums/t/1698.aspx


My2Abes,


Chuck

[richscorer]

<span style="font-size: 9pt; color: black; font-family: Verdana;"]Jarhead - "he wanted something relatively simple (CLS type control included in a Canon body)."


<span style="font-size: 9pt; color: black; font-family: Verdana;"] - Spot on I just think to improve what the Canon system already does would be fairly easy? e.g. Have a true control over the 3rd channel in something other then the 580 series,





-Chuck, I started to use off-camera lighting for weddings and found that while manual has its place, ETTL is the daddy and as far either using one hand held via a STE 2 for the immediate situation. But now i am getting more advanced and wanted to control more from my camera and have more setup up shots with cross lighting or to push what i do with more movement etc.


I love manual and yes if i was predomientaly shooting portraits or had more control over my surroundings i would go out and get a set of cactus V4's or cybersync's or the such like (tbh i really like the V4's and would buy in a heartbeat over normal PWII's)


and you are also right about simplicity, the more i have spent on my camera and lens the more i have realised what i could have got from a nifty 50 and a 400d, when you have control of the situation the results you can get are staggering.


But there is a reason the McNally uses Av and TTL, Speed of working and adjustablity from the camera something you don't have from the Canon setup at the moment (I know you can but it isn't as good as the nikon system).


Thanks for the links to Mr Setters photos there very inspiring and he has got a great style.


I suppose in a nut shell I all i am trying to say is that i for when i want / need to use ettl I wish there was a new STE2 or the such like to rival what the Nikonians have as for full fuctionality i have to have 580ex2 stuck on top of my camera, hand holding that all day is a chore and a waste of money if you not going to be using it for light.


But thanks for all the comments I like being challenged to think.......

[Sean Setters]

If I had more time, I'd really weigh in on this one--I do think that Canon's off-camera flash system is inferior to Nikon's. Even though I only have (1) Canon flash [580EX], I've done enough research to know where Canon fails their customers. I even wrote an email to Chuck Westfall to ask some questions about whether or not Canon would adress certain failings in the near future. In his reply, he basically said that he didn't necessarily agree that Nikon users had the upper-hand when it came to off-camera flash. He mentioned being able to control the flash exposure independently from the ambient exposure without having to jump through hoops. He also said, "For reasons of confidentiality, I cannot discuss Canon's future plans or products, but thanks for taking the time to write! There is a lot of room for improvement with the Canon Speedlite system, and we're always grateful for constructive feedback and suggestions from our users. "


In my original email to him I brought up the fact that Nikon users can use the camera body as a commander for off-camera strobes. I also mentioned that a Nikon user can set rear-curtain sync from their cameras because the sync is created by the center pin (not a TTL pin like Canon). That means a Nikon user can create a rear-curtain sync with ANY flash they prefer to use. That's a really handy feature...


In the end, Chuck said that both systems have their strong points and weaknesses. Oh well...I guess that means Manual control will be the cost-effective solution for the foreseeable future.

[Jarhead5811]

If you are going to be a strobist than you must cut the umbillical chord to a dedicated, "do it all for you" flash system.

I'm beginning to see the light. It's like the TTL system tends to fight what you are trying to do. I had a bad experience this past Sunday with TTL thinking it knew better whatI wanted thanI did. I'm going to attempt some manual shots soon. I'm thinking TTL has it's place but achieving a really cool look probably isn't it.

[Sean Setters]

Why? I use Cactus V2s from Gadget Infinity and Sean Setters uses Cybersyncs from Paul C. Buff.We both shootoff camera flash with manual flash. Both of these systems are inexpensive and reliable. Cybersyncs more so [reliable, that is].

Speaking of, I just purchased another Cybersync CST and CSRB (literally 20 minutes ago). I wanted another CST (trigger) so that I'd have a backup just in case something ever happened to the one I had (without it, all your receivers are useless). And I bought another CSRB (receiver) because, gosh darnit, you just can't have too many of them. I figure 5 receivers will get me by in most situations. []


But seriously, I also wanted to be able to set up the camera on a tripod and use a CSRB to fire my camera's shutter remotely. Then with a CST on the shoe, I can trigger strobes in the shot as well. So this evening I not only bought the CST &amp; CSRB, but I bought a motor cord, two Female Hotshoes with Miniphone Jacks, and a miniphone optical slave.


With the gear I purchased tonight, combined with what I already have, I can trigger my own self portrait from 300 feet away, using up to 3 flashes triggered via radio and 3 via optical slaves (2 Wein peanuts and the new optical slave). Not that I ever would, of course... he he he

[Chuck Lee]

Awesome Sean,


It's hilariously embarrasing to write this, but right after my post I went to a local Ritz and placed an order for two Quantaray 9550 Flash bodies andthree Canon E-TTL digital modules. You may ask why. Well, unfortunately Ritz has decided todiscontinue these particular Quantaray articles and I just happened to be posting herewhen I discovered this. I chated online with a sales rep who confirmed my fear, then browsed over to Promaster to see that their version of this flash was still available. It is, but at a 50% higher price. Next I contacted a local Ritz near to where I work and found out that they still have 10 of the 9550s and 3 of the digital modules left at the warehouse. So I placedan order. I want to keep an inventory of these flash units and the modules because........ My wife and I use them on flash brackets when we're shooting journalistic style, especially at weddings. Metz is the only other manufacturer to make a twin flash strobe and the only other manufacturer to make seperate dedicated hot shoe modules. As I said in the other post, if you destroy the ears on the module it's easy enough to replace for 35 USD. I got the 3 today for 18 USD/ea. These heads see a lot of action and it will only be a matter of time before they'll need to be replaced. Promaster will now be the only source for those replacements.


I simply love using this style of flash. You can bounce the swivel head and add an on axis fill light which results in fantastic light coverage. With E-TTL metering I can set my 5D and 40Dson f2.8-f8 &amp;1/60th-1/250th and fire away, not worried about how the exposure will turn out. Sure, a little comp is needed for different scenes, but for the most part this flash has been a true winner since our Minolta x370 film days. I still have the off camera pistol grip module that came witha used 9500A back in the early 90's. The only two things that would temp me to break down and invest in a 420 or 580 would be high speed sync and that crazy short recycling time. Other than that I can't say enough about what a great value the Quantaray "has been"...[:'(] It is a shame Nikon nor Canon can offer such a flash. I guess there just isn't enough demand for it, or people just aren't aware of it.


Well, with my order today we should be good for a couple more years and may be by then Canon will have a much better flash control system and I won't be so worried about how to pay for it. []


Here's an exampleusing a 9550 twin light strobe: