New to the world of ND and CP filters

[Hjones]

Hi guys.

I've spent most of my time in photography doing portrait/sports/event photography, and I've recently taken an interest in shooting landscapes alongside my more profitable ventures. Just a few months ago I got myself a heavy duty carbon fiber tripod + ballhead along with an intervalometer, and I've been getting some great results-- buying a good tripod was a wonderful decision.

I'm in the works to buy a 5D Mark III by December. However, with some excess profits from senior portraits I've done over the summer, I should be able to make up about $600 extra for accessories, though I had some other gear in line to buy with some of that money.

Most notably, I've been looking at the Lee Big Stopper, as it seems to have the best reviews, and the square filter seems useful. It also seems great since it has swap-out filter threads, though all of my current lenses are 77mm. I've been looking into getting a 24-70mm F/2.8 II for my 5D mark III, and it's filter threads are 82mm, which wouldn't work if I had only a 77mm filter. The other side of this is that I will probably be getting a 16-35mm F/4 IS specifically for landscapes, which in turn would have 77mm filters anyway.

So is it worth it to invest in the Lee Big Stopper? The filter itself is $140, and the filter holder is $88. That's $228 just for the ND filter to be on the camera, and that's without even a CP filter. What options do I have for a CP? I'm rather confused by how all this works when it comes to the Lee system and CP filters, as well as vignetting it could cause. I also saw that Lee's options are all over $200, which would be kinda pricey for me to spend $400 for this combination-- unless you can solidly recommend this and that it'll be worth my money. Then I would just get the Big Stopper and the holding kit, and wait for the next time I get some extra accessory-related money, instead of buying a cheaper B+W option. I'm not against waiting to save money and spending high money for the best, if that's your suggestion.

Thoughts? Do I get the big stopper and wait to get the Lee CP? Or do I go the B+W route and get B+W ND and CP filters? Do I get the Big Stopper and a cheap B+W CP filter?

This is all quite confusing to a photog that typically specializes in photojournalistic shooting and doesn't know much about filters, haha.

[neuroanatomist]

IMO, the main reason to go the Lee route is for graduated NDs. Circular grad NDs have the dividing line in the middle, no freedom of composition. With the Lee system, combining a CPL with a grad ND means two holders and a tandem adapter, or an expensive 105mm round CPL. The advantage of the Lee setup with a 10-stop ND is that you can compose the shot with just the holder, them slide in the Big Stopper.

Personally, I have the Lee holder and Big Stopper, and I have B+W CPLs and 10-stop NDs in 82mm and 77mm. Unless I'm using a grad ND, I find the convenience of the screw-in filters superior, so the B+Ws see more use.

[Kayaker72]

+1.

I don't have much to add. In addition to Lee, B+W, I would consider Singh-Ray. Also, the website, at least that I've come across, that probably provides the most filter options is 2filters.

My set up is similar to Neuro's in that I currently use screw in solid ND filters and 4x6" graduated ND filters. I have B+W 6 stop (most used) and 10 stop screw in ND filters (77 mm thread). But I use the cokin filter holder for my graduated ND filters. I have graduated ND filters from Cokin, Lee, and Singh-Ray. I think Cokin is underrated, but, with that said, I have moved to a combination of Lee and Singh Ray grad NDs when I pack. I don't have the Lee big stopper, but I am thinking about it. I just added the 24-70 II and need to solve my 82 mm thread dilemma.

Unfortunately for my wallet, I can imagine situations where it will be best to have both systems. The screw in ND filters are far more secure (IMO), and convenient if you are going to shoot, then move, and then shoot again. Live View will AF through even a 10 stop ND filter (which negates some of the benefit of being able to drop in the Lee big stopper after composition). Phase AF and Live View will AF through my 6 stop ND filter. The issue I run into with solid screw in ND filters is when I want to combine the grad and solid ND. For example, I was just shooting lighthouses at sunset. I wanted the to blur the ocean (10 stop ND screw in) and use the grad ND for the sky to get it closer to the lighthouse. I was shooting wide (~24 mm) so I get vignetting if I combine the screw in ND filter and the filter holder. So I ended up hand holding the grad ND over my screw in ND filter. Ultimately, I must have flinched as light got in the side and ruined the shot. In this instance, the Lee Big Stopper would have been the solution. But most other circumstances, I prefer the screw in filters, and have used the hand holding technique successfully before.

BTW, I tend to like Darwin Wigget's reviews. One of his reviews is why I went with the cokin filter holder over the Lee. I can't find that link, but I saw he has an ebook on filters for $10. When I have time, I may get it myself. But I have enough else going on right now.

[peety3]

My suggestion mirrors the two above: start with screw-on CPLs, or at least an 82mm with 82mm->77mm step-down rings. The screw-on filters are, for whatever reason, IMHO a lot easier to keep in good condition. The square filter system I chose for my long-gone Minolta kit was scratched in no time so it became quite useless.

I don't have any sort of GND filter currently, so it's hard for me to say that it's not very useful, but I honestly don't recall a time when I wished I had one. I'd probably prefer my CPLs to be screw-on so they're easier to rotate for alignment/tuning.

I'd also suggest that you start with a CPL and see how often you use it. That's most likely the filter you'd use most often, so if it isn't getting much use, anything else would get even less use.

[Hjones]

Thanks for all the advice guys. You've sure made me realize that the circular filters are just as good as the square ones-- which will really save my wallet.

I don't plan on using GND filters, since I'd rather just post-process in Lightroom and use a natural looking HDR to achieve a similar effect. The main reason I'm looking into a ND is to blur clouds/water in my exposures, since I absolutely love the look of those sorta shots.

I often go on hikes and vacations to get landscape shots, and I always end up using my tripod for these shots. Carrying a CPL and ND filter wouldn't be a big hassle compared to a tripod, so they'd likely get used whenever I'm taking these shots. I've heard CPL are useful for landscapes, and I definitely love how ND filters can effect the clouds/water, so I'd definitely be using one of those for my shots.

How useful is a CPL? When I first started photography, years ago, I used a cheap $10 CPL for a bit and never really got much use out of it. But that was before I started my new adventure into landscape photography, and I've had some trouble finding a good photo to prove that they're worth the $120 to get a pro one. The ND filter is much easier to find examples of, since I always find beautiful long exposures of ND filters.

[neuroanatomist]

For shots with water and shots of foliage, a CPL is very useful, IMO.

[Kayaker72]

How useful is a CPL? When I first started photography, years ago, I used a cheap $10 CPL for a bit and never really got much use out of it. But that was before I started my new adventure into landscape photography, and I've had some trouble finding a good photo to prove that they're worth the $120 to get a pro one. The ND filter is much easier to find examples of, since I always find beautiful long exposures of ND filters.

Agreed on the ND filters. So many uses. Regarding CPLs. I use mine ~25% of the time for my landscape photos. I use them to cut reflections off water, bring out the sky, or make colors pop a bit more.

An example:

Palouse Hills-7033 by kayaker72, on Flickr

BTW...I picked this shot not as I think it is so amazing that it will convince you, but it is an example of the effect. The sky towards the right begins to show what the sky really looked (lighter blue) like and towards the left of the photo the effect of the CPL (darker blue). CPLs tend to have an uneven effect on skies at wider angles, as shown here, but it still can be an effect I like.

[NFLD Stephen]

CPL is definitely my most used filter. IMHO everyone should have one, especially if they take any landscape shots. As neuro said, they're great for water (eliminates most of the reflections) and foliage (often deepens the green color on leaves). They also deepen the blue in the sky (really stands out with a few clouds as well). Note that for the sky, the effect is most pronounced at 90 degree angles from the sun. Also take care when shooting the sky with a super-wide angle lens and CPL as this can lead to color variation in the sky on either side of the frame. Finally, they also reduce light by around one stop. This can be bad or good (helps for longer exposures, especially when combined with a ND) depending on the usage.

Stephen