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  1. #1
    Super Moderator Kayaker72's Avatar
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    First off...love the Fat Boy Slim reference....

    Quote Originally Posted by Raid View Post
    As I understand it the reason for Canon's new body delays had been the new sensor mass production facilities.

    Sent from my XT905 using Tapatalk
    I think everyone here hopes you are right Raid. It would be great to see a new sensor in a 7DII in in 2014 with the same technology moving into the 5DIV and 1DX II in 2015.

    Quote Originally Posted by HDNitehawk View Post
    I just see a pattern developing from Canon where video is the focus. Will still photography benefit enough from this focus to keep up? I guess we will see.

    I doubt any companies are making money on mirrorless, but I think mirrorless is the future. I think they will replace the conventional mirrored DSLR eventually. The idea of the mirror was to give you the view through the lens, eventually the technology will take us to a point that you can do that digitally through a viewfinder. For sure we are several years away from this happening though, many hurdles to overcome. AF and battery power I think would be the biggest things to overcome.
    I am concerned about the video trend too. I don't mind some overlap as I do occasionally switch to video mode at family functions. But 99% of my use is for still photography. The item that concerns me the most was this video on the 1DC and that people may think this is the future of still photography. I certainly understand the concept of trying to grab a frame of a video and using it as a still and certainly their images looked good. The obvious issue is resolution, but I've also read that there are significant differences in how you optimize an image for video vs still photography. The concept I could most easily understand from what I read and thus remember is that with video you actually want a certain amount of motion blur at all times. Going from sharp image to sharp image actually makes the video look a little choppy. Of course, with still photography, you usually want the sharpest image you can get. These two can not co-exist. I am not sure if these boil down to the camera hardware, but it certainly impacts the style promoted in the video.

    So, I am hoping that the "Cinema" series are optimized for video and that the still series, such as the 1DX and 5DIII, etc, remains optimized for stills with the availability of video. For that reason, I was actually happy that the "C" series was introduced. At least Canon has the structure to split the two.

    Quote Originally Posted by Busted Knuckles View Post
    Oh just stop myself.....

    I am really interested in mirrorless technology, afterall the mirror has been around for a long, long time. just about as long as the keyboard..... w/ the dual pixel, etc tech the focusing need is rapidly going if not gone. I don't know if the focusing speed on the 70d is "maxed out" or moderated for future enhancements - either way some more CPU power is all that is needed and Moore's law on that has yet to fail.

    And yes, I will give Canon until the spring to come out w/ a M2 otherwise there is an A7 in my future.
    I remember a thread a few years ago where Daniel Browning was talking about the benefit of mirrorless cameras. I remember him mentioning several benefits, but I only recall four: 1) increased fps as the mirror no longer limits; 2) Increased camera life as you remove number of shutter actuations as the common limit to a camera life; 3) You remove the slight vibration caused by the shutter actuation for those that want the sharpest of images, and 4) smaller camera bodies as you don't need the space for the mirror box/OVF.

    Are there any others? Hopefully this doesn't make me "old" but I've never been too into the mirrorless concept because I am only slightly interested in any of those benefits. I am probably most interested in #1 and #4. But #1 creates additional issue (file storage, memory card size, transfer rates, etc). And I already have a tough time selecting between photos. #4, sure you can make a camera smaller, but very soon the lens becomes the primary bulk of the camera, not the body. Even on the current EOS-M, those two lenses are what drive the "bulk" of the camera, not the body.

    Maybe I am missing something on the mirrorless market. I'd love to hear from the rest of you. But as of now, I see it as a niche whose primary benefits are for mid-size/rangefinder camera bodies between pocketable cameras and dSLRs such as Sony just released. As others have pointed out, that could really hurt Canon's consumer level line, so I get why they haven't raced into the field yet. Granted, I think they should evolve the consumer line to include the M.
    Last edited by Kayaker72; 10-18-2013 at 01:47 PM.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kayaker72 View Post
    The item that concerns me the most was this video on the 1DC and that people may think this is the future of still photography.

    -----
    I remember a thread a few years ago where Daniel Browning was talking about the benefit of mirrorless cameras. I remember him mentioning several benefits, but I only recall four: 1) increased fps as the mirror no longer limits; 2) Increased camera life as you remove number of shutter actuations as the common limit to a camera life; 3) You remove the slight vibration caused by the shutter actuation for those that want the sharpest of images, and 4) smaller camera bodies as you don't need the space for the mirror box/OVF.

    Are there any others? .
    I think frame grab is Canon's vision for the future. Canon was pushing frame grabs when the 1C came out. I read comments like video is just still photography with a fast frame rate. If we knew for sure Canon's vision of the future we might understand where they are going with R&D.

    I can think of several other reasons for a mirrorless, but these items can be done with a normal DSLR as well if Canon would add a few things.

    I do not know how you compose your landscapes and waterfalls, but if I am shooting off the tripod I almost never use the mirror. It is almost always in live mode with the mirror up. It is hard to bend over at odd angles and look through viewfinders. Live view works well for this but when you get at real odd angles it is even hard to see the screen. I wouldn't need a mirror at all for landscape work off a tripod. A flip screen would be very handy. High MP would be a welcomed benefit as well. A fast AF in live view would be welcomed to. It is not always easy to get my face to the viewfinder at the location I want to shoot.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Raid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HDNitehawk View Post
    If we knew for sure Canon's vision of the future we might understand where they are going with R&D.
    If the number one Camera company (or any company really) released their Future Technology Roadmap to the market place they would be destroying the company.

    Kodak only announced their decision to exit film production, when Blind Freddy could see it, it was no surprise.

    The way companies keep ahead of the competition is to surprise the market. The new sensor with the built-in AF system in the 70D is a good example. As a poor user its very frustrating that we don't know what to expect. We don't know if our next purchase will be right or wrong, we just have to live with our decisions.

    The one big change to how Canon operates (and most other tech companies) is that new hardware is no longer released in the 1 Series. They appear in the Consumer or Semi-Pro range before moving into the Pro family. Canon cannot afford the years of in-house testing to ensure long term reliability that the Pro market demands. Most of all, Canon cannot afford to have a mass 1 Series recall.

    What we do know we get from Canon is the best QI from the glass... just wish they would let the price drop in Aus.
    Canon EOS 7D, EF-S 10-22, EF 24-105L, EF 50 f1.2L, EF 70-300L, 430EX.

    "Criticism is something you can easily avoid, by saying nothing, doing nothing and being nothing." -
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  4. #4
    Super Moderator Kayaker72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HDNitehawk View Post
    I can think of several other reasons for a mirrorless, but these items can be done with a normal DSLR as well if Canon would add a few things.

    I do not know how you compose your landscapes and waterfalls, but if I am shooting off the tripod I almost never use the mirror. It is almost always in live mode with the mirror up. It is hard to bend over at odd angles and look through viewfinders. Live view works well for this but when you get at real odd angles it is even hard to see the screen. I wouldn't need a mirror at all for landscape work off a tripod. A flip screen would be very handy. High MP would be a welcomed benefit as well. A fast AF in live view would be welcomed to. It is not always easy to get my face to the viewfinder at the location I want to shoot.
    I am shooting from a tripod more and more. I use live view if I have my 10 stop filter on as live view can focus through a 10 stop ND filter whereas the conventional phase detect AF can not. I typically prefer composing a shot through the OVF, when possible, I just like that experience better. I agree there are angles where a flip screen would be handy, but I seriously doubt one ever makes it to the 1D bodies, where the highest premium is put on construction, weather sealing and durability.

    Eventually, it would be nice if Canon had some sort of line up like the following:
    • P&S
    • APS-C
      • Mirrorless
        • EOS-M low end version (priced with rebel)
        • EOS-M high end version (priced with XXD)

      • Rebel-Low end
      • Rebel-High end
      • XXD
      • 7DXX

    • FF
      • Mirrorless
        • Rangefinder style (priced with 6Dx)

      • 6Dxx
      • 5Dxx
      • 1DX-x

    • Cinema series
    • MF
      • ??


    I intentionally omitted the long rumored "High MP" 3D/4D, whatever it is going to be. I can see them splitting the 1D series with one version aimed at landscape/fashion photographers (high MP) and the other aimed at sport/wildlife photographers (current 1DX). Or, I could just as easily seem them not splitting the series, trying to find common ground with the 1DX and offering MF to those that want extremely high resolution.

    So, in that lineup, I've added a high end version of the APS-C EOS-M and a Rangefinder FF mirrorless, and subtracted 2 different versions of the rebel (there are currently 4) and the 60D/60Da. Eventually consolidate the two EOS-M's and two Rebels into 3.

    Anyways, that is just me. Overall, the future may be mirrorless. I personally suspect if it is it will be cost driven and not so much due to benefits to the photographer. I, of one, would miss the OVF.

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