Dears Sirs, a small cry of some help with any functional solution for a gradual filter set up solution to a Canon TS-E 17mm f/4L?

[ZoeEnPhos]

Dears Sirs,





A question to all of you skillful photographers here on this excellent forum - about a gradual filter (GND) solution to a Canon TS-E 17mm f/4L?





Please have anyone of you been using CanonTS-E 17 f/4L in field as a landscape lens?


I have tried to take this lens outdoors and found out that it is not easy to overcome the big differences between the light sky and the rather dark ground.


I am not very good with Photoshop so taking two different exposures and merging them into one seems not very attractive to me.


Also the clouds on the sky are constantly in movement so the two exposures that I had tried to merge did not quite work and to some degree I feel that this is a bit of making at least a little step back from being authentic to the landscape view.


(By the way I use only .cr2 - files now a days. But have not got the Adobe Lightroom 3 yet - maybe I would need that program?)


But again - I found out that there is some filters that could be useful I think the dimensions should be something like 130mm X 170mm in order to not getting vignetting issues. And also how much of ND effect is needed (how many stops is normal between sky and ground? 2 or 3 stops? is that enough or will only 1 stop darkening be enough and also - does these filters be safe to use in order not to degrade the IQ as result?)


Or is there any other way around this problem with light skies and dark ground-differences?


I would very much appreciate your input and wise advice in this matter with this particular lens - or maybe I should purchase the Canon TS-E 24mm f/3.5L II which use 82mm filters?





Best Regards,


Charl


Sweden

[Dr Croubie]

Unfortunately, I don

[neuroanatomist]

Yes, in theory you could use a large grad ND, handheld in front of the lens, to achieve the effect you are looking for. Any filter has the potential to degrade IQ, but better quality filters have very little impact. The problem is likely going to be finding a large enough filter of high quality. My recommendation, if your budget allows, is to look at the Schneider Optics MPTV line. Schneider is the parent company of B+W filters, and the MPTV line (motion picture television) are made of high-quality Schott glass - as far as I know, they are the only optical glass grad ND filters available (most are resin). They have many to choose from, the largest is 168mm square, and they come in 2-stop hard edge, 2-stop soft edge, 3-stop hard edge, and 3-stop soft edge (links are to the Schneider website, from which you can get the stock codes/catalog numbers and try to find a distributor). They also have smaller sizes (but the 144mm square filters list for the same price as the 168mm filters).


Generally, for grad NDs you would choose 2- vs. 3-stops depending on the lighting conditions - look at current photos to estimate the EV difference between sky and ground for 'typical' shots. You'd choose hard edged for straight horizons (ocean, flat ground), and soft edged for uneven horizons (mountains, forests).


The other way around the problem is to use high dynamic range (HDR) techniques. There are many tutorials, websites, and books on that subject.


Personally, have the TS-E 24mm f/3.5L II, and I use it for architecture and landscapes. It's possible to get a filter holder for rectangular filters (Lee makes them, and Schneider has a 'landscape control kit' with a holder and a 4x5.65" 2-stop soft-edge grad ND). One problem there is that all the suppliers seem to be out of stock of both of them, and they are rare on the used market. Circular grad NDs are available, but useless from my perspective (no control over where you place the horizon in the frame).


Hope that helps...


--John

[Sheiky]

Hey Charl,


I quickly made a sample photo for you to view. In Lightroom you can use a digital graduated filter. Obviously it cannot create detail if it isn't there, but you might get an impression. Also it might be helpfull to see what the difference in exposure is for different stops of ND. Finally I quickly made a HDR out of 3 exposures which I took.





You can click on the photo to see the large version.


From my perspective a graduated filter can be very nice. However if you have uneven terrain, you will always see the the differences. If you'd place the filter above for example the mountain, you'd see a lighter exposed sky next to the mountain. If you'd place it lower, you'll see a darker top of the mountain.


A HDR is actually quite simple to make. I personally use Photomatix Pro. However I made this HDR in less than a minute in Photoshop. HDR is a build in function in Photoshop. Since you mentioned you have Photoshop(I think) you should be able to give it a try.


It's not as easy as Photomatix, but the alligning is definitely good.


In my example I picked the +2EV picture as an example. With the normal exposure a little tweaking in the shadows/highlights would have helped as well.


Hope I have made things a little clearer?


Cheers,


Jan





PS:

(By the way I use only .cr2 - files now a days.
But have not got the Adobe Lightroom 3 yet - maybe I would need that
program?)

I use Lightroom as my organiser and for the basic editing. It's a great tool for that. You can always try a trial period