Computer performance should not cost more than our Cameras!

[Tallywho]

After
reading some of the forums tonight, I have decided to write this in
response/frustrations that we have all had with our computers and wanting a
faster one that doesn't cost an arm and a leg. After reading the post" Computers
arghhhhh.. 32 or 64, HDR arghh... by Steve U." It just pushed me over the
edge. And I feel for you Steve! This ones for you.


I have and for almost 12 years build and maintained my own
computers. And for those of you who are
feeling adventurous, there is a wonderfully long story, full of misspellings,
lousy sentence structure, horrible punctuation, and weird terms. If you so
dare, and are brave enough to read; my respects for having the patients, and my
hat is off to you!


It goes a little something like this.





Back when I was 13, Dell was all that and a
bag of chips; so I had to get a Dell. 2 years of saving, scraping, and out-right
selling of some of my most prized basketball cards, I came up with 1600 dollars
that I needed for that dell. And when I
got it I was completely disappointed. I was pissed. the computer I had just
bought wouldn't even play half of the games I wanted due to the lack of ram,
and the slow speed. To top it all off, the motherboard didn't allow for better
ram upgrades either. And all this came about after I was told by the guy at
dell "this is exactly what you will need to play that game". So here I was with
a 1600 dollar piece of junk. Then I find out from my brother's friend that he
builds his own computers for like 300% less. So he asked to see what I paid
1600 dollars for. So I bring the computer over to him and within 20 min, he had
specked it all out at for around 600 dollars. Needless to say he had a good
laugh, and I wanted to cry. It was still under its 30 day return policy so I
sent it back. I then proceeded to give the 1600 bucks to my brother's roommate
who built me a 1500 kick-butt, game-stomping, frag-blasting, friend-envy piece
of awesomeness. He only charged me 100 bucks to put it all together. I then
witnessed what looked like open heart surgery on Cp3o, and didn't understand
one bit of what I was seeing. I was extreamly happy, and could not wait to go
slay all my friends. So thus I had what we called "PC Gamer Envy Glory" my
computer rocked, and everyone and their kill-to-death ratios knew it.





Times
changed, I got older (well a little bit anyway; still the same size), and so
did my interests. I became obsessed with Photoshop and Bryce 3D. I wanted to
render like the pros. So everyone told me, "well get a Mac they are designed to
do that stuff. " So I looked into them; and then I looked OUT of them. After
seeing Mac's prices for their computers, I learned very quickly that I wasn't
going to make a rendering farm on 3 bucks a week. After what my brother's friend did with my
1600 bucks, I knew there had to be even more. So I did what all of us do when
we want to learn about something... I consulted the all mighty Internet, and
searched and read my brains out on forums; (56k modems were the bomb.) And
decided that my computer was awesome but I wanted to build an even better one.
One that had even more slots for hard drives, and rams, and mega-giggly-bytes
(heck I had no idea what that stuff was called back then.) And With in 2 weeks I sold that computer
saved money for a new one, bought the parts online and proceeded to put it
together. Not really knowing what I was doing, other than my countless hours on
the Internet and some decent forums; I managed to do it. That computer is still
running to this day. I gave it to my roommate 9 years later, and we link our
computers together and game on it. It has gone through a few upgrades, a little
better processor, some more ram, bigger hard drive, and a new video card. Total
upgrade price 270 dollars. I replaced them not because the parts died, but because
they were out-dated. Sure It's not the best computer in the world by today's
standards, but it STILL WORKS, and it can STILL BE UPGRADED


Here
is my current system I'm using for my photography business-





MS Windows 7 Professional 64-bit
120.00


CPU


AMD Phenom II X4 965 3.4ghz
165.99


Deneb 45nm Technology


RAM


12.0GB Dual-Channel DDR3 1800 @
901MHz (per channel) (9-9-9-24)


So thats 1802MHz per stick
239.99


Motherboard


ASUSTeK Computer INC. Crosshair III
Formula (AM3) 209.99


Graphics


SAMSUNG @ 1920x1080


512MB GeForce 9800 GTX/9800 GTX+
(nVidia) 110.99


Hard
Drives


977GB Western Digital WDC
WD1001FALS-00J7B1
79.99


977GB Western Digital WDC
WD1001FALS-00J7B1 79.99


147GB Western Digital WDC
WD1500ADFD-00NLR4 (raptor 10,00rpm)
109.99


Optical
Drives


LITE-ON DVDRW LH-20A1S ATA
Device
19.99


Audio


SoundMAX Integrated Digital HD
Audio (built in to mother board)


Case


COOLER MASTER RC-692-KKN2 CM690 II 79.99


Power
Supply


Thermaltake Black Widow 850W ATX 12V
v2.3, Certified 80 PLUS 82.99


Monitor


ASUS VW266H Black 25.5" 2ms(GTG)
HDMI Widescreen LCD Monitor 289.99





Plus
59.99 for 3day ups shipping





Grand
Total 1649.99 Not having to take out a seconded
mortgage ......Priceless


Also,
this computer has been upgraded several times over the past 2 years.





dual core to quad core 165.99


added
2 terabyte hard drives 159.98


added
4 more gigs of memory
79.99


total: 405.97





Yes
Macs run amazing Excuse me let me correct myself. Mac OS is amazing. But try and put this computer
together on Mac's site for 1600 dollars and all kiss your feet, and blow
bubbles in your chocolate milk for you.


I came up with around $5,300.00..... I can't afford that....
I'm going to buy new camera lesn, and a new camera.... and some more camera
lenses before I drop 5 G's on a computer just to process those images. I'm
Tri-Booting Mac OS X Snow Leopard, windows 7 pro, and windows XP;paid for all 3
of the OS's retail. Also all of my hardware has either a 3 year warranty, or
lifetime warranty. Apple care is great until it runs out, and you can't re-up
it on existing hardware, nor can you replace or upgrade your Mac parts for
cheap. My buddy just dropped 5600.00 on a new Mac pro, and wanted to have a
little competition to see whose was faster. And my computer in windows 7 64bit,
imports, loads, renders filters/ pictures and exports in Photoshop CS4 and
lightroom3.2 faster by minuets. And when we do bench marks in leopard, I just
smoke his butt. If Mac would lower their prices by about 350%, I would love to
buy a Mac. Now don't get me wrong, Mac's Operating system is amazing, their
hardware in my opinion is out of this world hilariously overpriced for what
they are actually putting in. I have taken apart many Macs, and looked up their
part numbers. And they mark up their stuff anywhere from 200%-900% and that's not
a lie. Don't believe me? Google it. For those of you who can afford a Mac;
Awesome, Great! But for me just because they say its amazing with 2x this and
5x that doesn't mean it is.



All of the hype, high prices and horribly substandard computer parts are
what drove me to learn how to build my own computers. And I can tell you its
far easier and painless these days to learn how to put your own computer
together than it is to drop 5000grand on a system that you have to take to a
store to get fixed/upgraded and pay outrageous prices for someone to tell you
that the ding-dong at the brand name computer store was an idiot, and sold you
the wrong thing.


So then you
ask, well what the heck am I supposed to do? Well I can tell you computers have
come a long way and so has the business. You can do a simple search on Google
for companies that build custom computers that are built for gaming, for really
good prices. Little know fact that if you build a gaming rig, you have just
built a kick-butt Photoshop/video/audio production machine. Because the
hardcore gaming / modders are always 10 steps ahead of the average consumer /prosumer/
name brand Computer Company. We want everything to run as fast as possible. We
want to get the highest frame rates on our games with everything set to max;
while listening to music, burning dvds,
running benchmark tests and doing our taxes all at once. We are cooling everything
with water and liquid nitrogen, because we want to achieve warp speed with our CPU's
and send Captain Kirk and Spock a message saying, "TADDA LOOK WHAT I DID". I
decided that I would rather spend that money on something a little more
productive and rewarding- Photography.


Sorry
this has been such a long rant / sermon, but I would imagine there are a few of
you out there that would like a really good system to do all your photo editing,
and do it blazingly fast and not have to take out a 2^nd mortgage to
do so. And rather than spend 5 grand on
a computer, would like to have some money left over to spend on your camera and
lens system. So I'm going to list a few links of companies that make custom
gaming rigs that will destroy any photo-shopping, Lightroom-ing Raw-processing,
HDR-ing you throw at it.


www.digitalstormonline.com


www.cyberpowerpc.com


And if your hardcore and want to learn how to do it your self?



www.tomshardware.com
and get all your parts at www.newegg.com








And yes the pre-built rigs are going to be a little more
than what you can build your own for, but they are not near as ridiculous as
certain "other" companies. And they use High-end aftermarket parts
that can be upgraded/replaced for cheap through sites like newegg.com. And they
10 times higher quality than the garbage that name brand computer companies swindle
you into buying. They also include extended warranties like the other
companies, if that's what you need. They also give you gaming cases which have
extremely good airflow, keeping everything cool.


Number
one reason computer hardware fails, is due to the over heating of the internal parts.
Huge corporations/computer companies are trying to pinch every penny so they
can make the biggest profit. They will only ever use the bare minimum that's
required of them to meet what that spec sheet says on your order form. They
don't give you extra cooling; they design these machines to break on purpose.
So you will go and buy another one in 2 years; if that. I have been in the
computer repair business officially for 8 years now. And the only reason I was
able to do so, was due to my frustration I had as a 13 year old trying to play
the latest game and only making 3 bucks a week. I've built over 300 systems,
repaired more than I want to remember of every make model and shape you can
think of. And I have learned how absolutely sleazy the computer industry is
when it comes to selling you something that's only going to last 2 years
because they design it to overheat and die. I'm sorry; but that's GARBAGE.
Everyone deserves to process render and photos with out having to spend their
kid's college tuition fund. Photography is an expensive hobby, however much
more rewarding in my opinion.





Sorry this was so long but it pains me to read so many
forums with this being the core problem to "- many a photographer's processing dismay."
I was lucky; I got into computers early and before photography. But it's the
other way around. Now I'm the one learning from you guys how to take pictures.
And I have to say that your info on this forum has been priceless and amazing.
So I'm extending my knowledge of computers as a way of saying thank you for all
your help. This forum and all of the gracious photographers who have
contributed to it, have landed me 4 weddings (3 of which haven't happened yet)
2 portrait sessions, and 1 artist/ album photo shoot. And I have made over
1500.00 bucks doing something I absolutely love. So feel free to email me your
questions about system specs, and or problems. I owe you guys! Sorry about all
my Mac hating, thanks for reading





Running lightroom 3.2 64bit


Adobe Photoshop CS4 (64bit)


(And I still have time for the occasional fragging of some
newbs)

[Colin500]

Nice rant, hope it doesn

[bob williams]

Thomas, Thanks, I enjoyed the read, and agree with you about the do-it-yourself/re-build info. The only thing i know about Mac is what I read in thier specs and that they are expensive, but I can't honestly speak about thier performance because I have never owned or operated one. I have been building my own since my first PC-XTand have ended up with relatively fast, inexpensive machines. I current;y own a 5 year old dell, and it has worked fine--but its time to build my own again. Thanks for the inspiration.


Bob

[HDNitehawk]

When I bought my first apple last year and brought it home and plugged it in, it worked. When I bought my I phone, wifes I pad, I TV, and wifes laptop we plugged them in, they synced and they all worked. No fuss, no fight and now if I am at my TV, in the car or wherever all my stuff is synced together and I can watch Family Guy wherever I am at. I have PC

[Dan Fleming]

If I may add one comment: If you are not up for speccing out your own computer and building it from scratch, there is also a level II way of doing it. (remember those plastic models that had level I level II and level III for difficulty? Speccing and buying parts individually would be level III, macs or dells level I) tigerdirect.com sells barebones kits that usually come with motherboard, processor, ram, hard drive and case. These are incredibly reasonable, and you don

[HDNitehawk]

If I may add one comment: If you are not up for speccing out your own computer and building it from scratch, there is also a level II way of doing it. (remember those plastic models that had level I level II and level III for difficulty? Speccing and buying parts individually would be level III, macs or dells level I) tigerdirect.com sells barebones kits that usually come with motherboard, processor, ram, hard drive and case. These are incredibly reasonable, and you don't have to worry about interoperability because they have worried about that for you. I think I am about to drop some cash on an i3 barebones kit from them.

Dan


Your post kind of highlights one of the issues. Level I, II and III. Alot of people are Level I and just want a computer that works. They go to the sales geek and he checks the systeme requirments of there software and compares it to a computer that exceeds the requirements and says this is what you want. They get it home and it works but is darn slow.


I went to tigersoft's website, and really if someone looks at this computer and they are level 1 will they really know what this is telling them (maybe, maybe not):


<span class="prodspecs"]<span style="color: #0000ff;"]Intel Core i7 4GHZ Overclocked Barebone PC - EVGA P55 FTW SLI Motherboard, Intel Core i7-875K Processor, 4GB DDR3 RAM , Cooler Master HAF 922 Chassis, Thermaltake 850W PSU, Asetek Liquid Cooling


<span class="prodspecs"]So if your a level I guy and clueless, and your options are Dell or Apple, who do you go with. Of course Dell is cheaper, or is it? I have a $2000 Dell laptop sitting on my desk at work, and I can tell you right now that it is no where close to my sons Mac Pro Notebook he paid $2500 for. Add another $300 or soto the Dell maybe, but then where is the cost savings of using Dell.


<span class="prodspecs"]Alot of people are level I, but if the level I buyer is not willing to invest the time in researching what is what, and what works best, then they are at the mercy of the Custom Box builder they go to. And the Box Builder may know what he is doing, or he may not and you end up a slow PC just like you bought one of the name brand manufactures.


<span class="prodspecs"]

[Daniel Browning]

Thanks for sharing, Thomas. Informative post.

[ddt0725]

Amazing how these posts about computers comes after I have spent two days of frustration dealing with my own computer! My PC is only 4 yrs old but I guess in computer years that is more like 50 yrs. old! I am using Vista, which I know is a whole problem in itself!


I know nothing about adding memory or additional disk space. All I pretty much know is how to turn it on, add programs (which I

[Dan Fleming]

I am planning on cleaning my computer up ....uninstalling programs I don't use much, run "Crap Cleaner", defragment and anything else I can think of. Then I am going to have an engineer at the office install more internal hard drive and maybe switch out from Vista to Windows 7.


Anyone know if this will solve the problem!?


Denise

Hey Denise!


Computer problems are frustrating, especially when the computer can't keep up. I am currently running a 7 year old Dell desktop, which I have upgraded and modded a few times to keep it running. I tried stitching together 4 pictures in Photoshop and it took hours to do anything, so I feel your pain. Since I bought that computer I have become more of a computer geek, so I'll be building my next one. (yay.) That being said let me address your proposed solutions.


1) Adding more hard drive space won't improve the performance of your computer any. It will give you more space to store the 18mp photos coming out of your 7D. As long as your engineer coworker has the computer open you might ask her/him to get some RAM for you and upgrade that. That is probably going to be the most-bang-for-your-buck upgrade you can do to your computer. I would expect it to cost $80-150 for adequate ram, given the age of your computer.


2) uninstalling programs, running crap cleaner, defragmenting, etc are all good steps to do, and they will net you some performance increase. Depending on how much you have installed, how full your hard drives are etc you will get different performance boosts. Of those the biggest boost you will get is shutting down the number of programs that start as your computer turns on and sit in the background not helping you. Doing that is a little more advanced, so if you aren't comfortable going in and messing with that kind of thing, you might have the engineer also look at that.


3) If you decide to install Windows 7 then all the items discussed in (2) are not necessary. Installing windows 7 gets rid of all your previously installed program and over-writes your entire hard drive, so you lose all your information. ***COMMUNITY SERVICE STATEMENT: Backup, backup, backup before doing ANYTHING on your computer. Make sure all your pictures, videos, music, important information and documents are stored in one or two different places other than this computer. You wouldn't believe how many times I, who should know what I am doing, kick myself when I am reinstalling because I realize I didn't back up a set of pictures or assignments, etc. END COMMUNITY SERVICE STATEMENT*** I would recommend moving from Vista to Windows 7 (I say that though I still use XP). Vista consumes huge amounts of processing power and leaves less for your programs to run. Windows 7 is more resource efficient, possibly even more so than windows XP.





That's my $0.02.


Hope it helps.


Dan

[Tallywho]

for those that can afford a mac, like i said... Thats great. seriously, they are good systems for that reason alone amongst many other reasons. And I understand that not everyone has the time, and i mean "the time" it takes to learn how to use build/troubleshoot/install their own computer. I Own an Iphone for a few reasons. It only cost me 99 bucks for the hardware. It works waaaay better than any other phone(not so much with some of the droids now.) Ya im tied to at&amp;t, but if the phone had cost me 600 bucks; I would have not done it. I wish mac would do this with all of there products to a point, and or offer discounts on older models a few years back, consistently. But yes I agree with, hey just get a mac statement. Like my friend who paid 5600 for his mac. Ive tried to show him how to build his own, but its just not something he understands well. He does produce audio and video like a very well, and puts out some amazing stuff.