7d vs 60d mostly sports

[ffron]

<span>I am a hobby photographer who shoots mostly sports. My challenge has been gymnastics.(Indoors and no flash allowed.)<o></o>


<span>For the past 4 years I have been able to get okay to goodpictures with a RebelXT because I have decent lenses<o></o>


<span>70-200mm 2.8 and 85mm 1.8


<span>I have now decided to upgrade most likely to the 7d because of the promoted low light abilities. I would like to be able to shoot at higher ISO so that I could increase the shutter speed to be able to capture flipping. Anything above 400 ISO on the XT has been mostly unacceptable.<o></o>


<span>Questions:<o></o>


<span>Will the 7D be significantly better for this purpose then the 60D?<o></o>


<span>Can someone explain the AF feature for moving objectsof the 7D, I know there is an aperture limit. Will it work with my 70-200 lens set to 2.8?<o></o>


<span>Third question, just for the fun of it. Now that I may spend close to $2,000, I considered the 5dm2, which I see at a refurbished price of $2,000. From looking at the tests on this site I see that its high ISO noise level is much better than the 7D or 60D. But I don't really think it is a sports camera. Thoughts?<o></o>


<span style="font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif'; color: black; font-size: 9pt;"]<span style="font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif';"]Any help would be great. I have spent way too much time reading about this decision and I want to go ahead and get a new camera and start taking pictures.<o></o>

[neuroanatomist]

Hi, and welcome to the TDP forums!

Will the 7D be significantly better for this purpose then the 60D?

Yes.

Can someone explain the AF feature for moving objectsof the 7D, I know there is an aperture limit. Will it work with my 70-200 lens set to 2.8?

There's not really 'aperture limit'. The 7D and 60D both have a high-precision center AF point that works with lenses that are f/2.8 or faster. It doesn't matter what aperture the lens is set to, since autofocus is done with the aperture wide open (it closes down just as you take the picture).


However, while both have an AI Servo mode for tracking moving subjects, the AI Servo mode on the 7D is better (more AF points, better processor, better algorithms). Short of a 1D-series body, the 7D has Canon's best AF system, and that's what matters for tracking moving subjects.


One more key point on the AF system - sports, especially indoors with no flash, means fast aperture lenses shot wide open. That's where you get the most benefit from autofocus microadjustment, a feature that allows you to calibratethe AF system to match specific lenses (accounts for variations due to manufacturing tolerances). Pros used to send their cameras and lenses into Canon for this service, but with the 7D you can do it yourself. The 50D had the feature, but for some reason Canon left it out of the 60D.

I considered the 5dm2, which I see at a refurbished price of $2,000. From looking at the tests on this site I see that its high ISO noise level is much better than the 7D or 60D. But I don't really think it is a sports camera. Thoughts?

Yes, the 5DII is better at high ISOs. The 'crop factor' applies to ISO noise as well (which is dependent on total light hitting the sensor), by factor of 1.6 (which is 1.33 stops). But no, the 5DII is not a sports camera. The shutter lag is too long, and AF is not adequate, in my opinion, for tracking moving subjects - especially coming toward or moving away from you. My 5DII has trouble keeping up with my 3-year-old running toward me - my 7D can handle that even with the thin depth of field (where focus is most critical) and relatively slow AF system of the EF 85mm f/1.2<span style="color: #ff0000;"]L II shooting at f/1.2.


Bottom line, for your purposes the 7D is the camera best suited.


Hope that helps...


--John

[ffron]

Thank you for the response.


That was pretty much what I had decided.


Frank

[erno james]

FPS or frames per second is key in getting sports action frozen in time. The 7D outweighs both the 60D and the 5dm2. More FPS means you

[Colin500]

My 5DII has trouble keeping up with my 3-year-old running toward me - my 7D can handle that even with the thin depth of field (where focus is most critical) and relatively slow AF system of the EF 85mm f/1.2<span style="color:#ff0000;"]L II shooting at f/1.2.

Hm, that's quite a common use case for my 5D2 when I'm at home ... must ... resist ... adding a 7D as second body!


Really impressive, if it manages that at f/1.2, the difference in AF is larger than I thought!


Colin

[Sheiky]

Hehe I'm going to be a pain in the butt again [6]

<span>Third question, just for the fun of it. Now that I may spend close to $2,000, I considered the 5dm2, which I see at a refurbished price of $2,000. From looking at the tests on this site I see that its high ISO noise level is much better than the 7D or 60D. But I don't really think it is a sports camera. Thoughts?

I'm not really with the others on this one. Yes the 7D is a dedicated sports and action camera, but the 5D2 CAN do it as well. It doesn't have the great AF that the 7D offers, but hear me out...

<span>For the past 4 years I have been able to get okay to goodpictures with a RebelXT because I have decent lenses

This sentense states practically that you are able to take good photos of the sports you shoot with your current gear. The Rebvel XT has a shutterlag of about 100 milliseconds. The 7D has 59 milliseconds and the 5D2 has 73 milliseconds. While the 7D beats the 5D2 in this regard....the 5D2 beats the Rebel XT!!!


In other words, if you can manage to get good shots with the rebel XT...in theory the 5D2 would be a big improvement already and therfor it wouldn't be a "bad" camera for your typw ofphotography[A] And since the 5D2 beats the 7D in image-quality...do the math [:P]


Seriously, I don't mind usingthe 5D2for sports, but I must admit that the focussing system and the high framerate of the 7D will probably give you more good photos. Plus in "higher" ISO-values it will outperform your current rebel XT. So for a dedicated sportscamera, I will also vote for the 7D. Eventhough my 1 day of using it wasn't that positive [:P] But what's 1 day?


The 5D2 would be better if the sportsphotography would be an occasional thing for you I think...I just love my camera [A]


Good luck! []


Jan

[neuroanatomist]

This sentense states practically that you are able to take good photos of the sports you shoot with your current gear.

Great point, Jan! Both the frame rate and the shutter lag of the 5DII are better than a Rebel (although the frame rate is one shot per second better instead of more than double). AF on the 5DII is better than a Rebel's, too.


But just to be contrary [A] ffron might be deriving some crop factor benefit on angle of view - the lenses mentioned as being used for gymnastics are both telephoto, so the 1.6x crop sensor might mean not having to deeply crop the resulting images(after 'losing' a an effective 60% boost in focal length). If you have to crop a 5DII image by 1.6x, you end up with an image of lower quality and less than half the pixels of one from the 7D. The alternative (buy a longer lens) is a costly one for fast apertures at those focal lengths...

[HDNitehawk]

But just to be contrary [img]/emoticons/emotion-13.gif[/img] ffron might be deriving some crop factor benefit on angle of view - the lenses mentioned as being used for gymnastics are both telephoto, so the 1.6x crop sensor might mean not having to deeply crop the resulting images(after 'losing' a an effective 60% boost in focal length). If you have to crop a 5DII image by 1.6x, you end up with an image of lower quality and less than half the pixels of one from the 7D. The alternative (buy a longer lens) is a costly one for fast apertures at those focal lengths...

The OP has a 70-200mm f2.8, which may very well be enough length to fill the full frame 5D. It would be easy to see if ffron is mainly shooting on the short end of the zoom, the mid to long end of the 200mm will take up the gap. If usualy at the long end then a new lens might be in order.


But...ffron said they wanted to capture tumbling. Keep in mind the frame rates, the 5D II with &lt;4 compared to the 7D's8 per second. You have twice the chance of capturing the action with the 7D.


Another thing maybe to consider is the burst rate. The 5D for a full Raw image is 13, before you will hit the nasty "Busy" signal. The burst rate of the 7D is 15.


It sounds to me like the 7D would be the best fit for what ffron has described.

[Fast Glass]

As much as I like the 5D II I will have to vote for the 7D in this case, the performance gap is just to big betweenthe bodies.


But that is my $0.02,[]


John.