Technical Problems--Advice or Suggestions Appreciated

[bob williams]

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt;"]<span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: small;"]As some of you know,<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"] I have been concentrating on hummingbird photography.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"] As fate would have it,<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"] the more I learn, the more I realize just how much I have yet to learn.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"] I normally try and do a little research to resolve these issues and have done so on this subject to no avail.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"] Simply, <span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"]I have run into a stumbling block that I can't seem to overcome and am asking for suggestions or ideas from anyone willing to take an educated guess.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"] <span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"]So here we go:
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt;"]<span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: small;"]The problem is "ghosting" I think,<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"] and ghosting is usually caused by light sources that are of different <span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"]durations, i.e. a flash and natural sunlight where you get a stroboscopic effect on fast moving subjects such as humming birds.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"] Recently,<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"] I have run into a problem that may very well be "ghosting"<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"] but it looks a little different than the usual ghosting-----It looks more like a silhouette than a ghost and is more common when I am shooting with a distant background (12-15 feet) rather than a close background (2-3 feet).<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"] I actually think I am getting a "bounce back" silhouette, rather than a ghost---Even if I am correct (and I am not sure that I am ),<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"] I do not know how to overcome it.
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt;"]<span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: small;"]My normal setup usually consists of the follow:
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt;"]<span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: small;"]Full manual, manual focus, tripod, radio shutter release
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt;"]<span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: small;"]7D, 500 f4 @13-15 feet from subject.
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt;"]<span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: small;"]two <span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"]430 exII flashes and one 580 exii flash on the subject bird triggered by one pocket wizard
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt;"]<span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: small;"]two vivtar 285 hv flashes on background triggered by one pocket wizard
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt;"]<span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: small;"]Even with all flashes set to 1/16th power output,<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"] I am still having these problems
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt;"]<span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: small;"]I shoot outside but in shaded area to limit the impact of direct sunlight.
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt;"]<span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: small;"]My initial settings <span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"]are intended to completely eliminate ambient light in the shade and those are normally 1/250th, f16, ISO 100 and I adjust from there if necessary.
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt;"]<span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: small;"]I do understand that same flash power on different flashes will yield different flash durations but the difference doesn't seem to be enough to warrant different settings on different flashes (I think--feel free comment and/or correct me on this "theory")
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt;"]<span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: small;"]Here are some examples: (these are completely unedited and are not normally what I would post--they are intended to demonstrate the problem)
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt;"]
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt;"]
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt;"]And here is one that has a tripple ghost---The background is only about 5 feet from subject on this one and is a pice of cloth---not natural.
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt;"]
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt;"]I do occasionally get lucky and produce a shot without this effect butit is by far the exception and not the rule. Any suggestions or insight you can offer would be greatly appreciated.
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt;"]
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt;"]Thanks,
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt;"]
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt;"]Bob

[ddt0725]

Wow! I heard you talk of ghosting before but I had no idea until seeing these what you were really talking about! I did not have this on any of the shots I took so i am sorry I cannot be a ton of help but what did come to mind was Sean's ballerina photos when he was trying to get this affect.


community.the-digital-picture.com/.../58436.aspx


I am sure he is your man to help you figure out how not to do get this to happen!

Good luck ...I know you will get it figured out!

Denise

[Rocco]

I have a guess, and it has to do with your shutter speed.


Are the pocket wizards you use the Flextt5? I believe (could be mistaken) that those will support high speed sync on the flashes via TTL which will allow for a much faster shutter speed, up to 1/8000. Not sure about any methods otherwise, haven't read up on the subject enough yet. Stil getting my feet wet with flash.

[Rocco]

Also, another thought.. if you're eliminating ambient completely, rear curtain sync will probably do the trick. Fires the flash at the end of the exposure.

[btaylor]

I

[bob williams]

Are the pocket wizards you use the Flextt5? I believe (could be mistaken) that those will support high speed sync on the flashes via TTL which will allow for a much faster shutter speed, up to 1/8000. Not sure about any methods otherwise, haven't read up on the subject enough yet. Stil getting my feet wet with flash.

Rocco, Pretty good suggestion--but...From what I have read from the HB pros, they actually suggest sticking with standard sync speeds or less----They idea is that your exposure should come from your flash duration alone and not your shutter speed. In reality, you probably need a blackened room to truly achieve this. I am also not sure if you can do HSS in manual flash mode---But I may give it a try just to see what happens.


Thanks,


Bob

[bob williams]

Also, another thought.. if you're eliminating ambient completely, rear curtain sync will probably do the trick. Fires the flash at the end of the exposure.
<div style="CLEAR: both"]</div>

Haven't heard of that one before---but sounds like it is worth a try---Very interesting idea---Thanks

[bob williams]

@ Ben, you may have something here. I didn

[nvitalephotography]

Yeah, Ben

[bob williams]

Yeah, Ben's thoughts were exactly what I would have guessed it to be.
<div style="CLEAR: both"]</div>

Thanks Nick, It does make sense to me as well----Maybe one of our engineer friends can shed some light on the subject (no pun intended---well, maybe a little pun-[A])


Bob