Canon 85mm 1.2 or Sigma 85mm 1.4?

[Brendan7]

I have said it before (very recently), I don't recommend it for the average shooter but for a pro I think the 1.2 is a very valuable tool.

Keith, can you elaborate a little more on why you'd recommend this lens for a pro but not for an amateur?


Thanks!


--John

I think what he meant was that for an amateur, the difference between f/1.2 and f/1.4/f/1.8 isn't a difference big enough to justify the difference in cost (But heck, if you have $1900 and feel like losing it buy the 1.2!!!). But for a pro who needs/is dependent on/could profit easily from the larger aperture, the 1.2 lens becomes a better value.

[Fast Glass]

Also due *probably* from the very shallow DOF off/1.2. But f/1.8 aint exactally deep DOF either. An ameture will think. Geez, and I can't even get the whole face in focus. Even my kit lens can do that![]


Also to make this lens really shine it needs to be on a FF, which most ametures do not have.


John

[Keith B]

I have said it before (very recently), I don't recommend it for the average shooter but for a pro I think the 1.2 is a very valuable tool.

Keith, can you elaborate a little more on why you'd recommend this lens for a pro but not for an amateur?


Thanks!


--John

I think what he meant was that for an amateur, the difference between f/1.2 and f/1.4/f/1.8 isn't a difference big enough to justify the difference in cost (But heck, if you have $1900 and feel like losing it buy the 1.2!!!). But for a pro who needs/is dependent on/could profit easily from the larger aperture, the 1.2 lens becomes a better value.

Pretty much what Brenden said. I would never tell someone not to get it, but at the same time I hate gushing over how really awesome the lens is and be the factor that throws someone over board to make an investment they won't really reap the benefits of. It has nothing to do with ability just cost justification. I know there are thousands + with more ability than me, I'd never be so bold.


Like A LOT of folks base the quality and value of a lens on sharpness and the 1.8 will definitely give you that. The 1.2 gives you sharpness and a lot of character not found in other lenses (not saying the 1.8 doesn't have any character). If sharpness is all you crave then the 1.2 may be a waste of $1500. A lot of folks have said stopping this lens down to 1.8 is a waste of $1500 but I will tell this lens at f/2 created an unreal dreamy bokeh like I have never seen before. Even f/4 is still unbelievably smooth. The sharpness is undeniably there, but sharpness is what it is. A lens is either sharp or it isn't. The 1.2 is a mind boggling combination of sharpness and buttery softness that can make you brain hurt from sensory overload.


If you have the cash and it won't make you miss a car or mortgage payment. If you have a deep down body need for super shallow DOF and really can see the bokeh difference between the 1.2 and 1.8 at comparable f-stops (it is substantial, but some don't see it), then buy the lens. you won't hate it. I guarantee that.

[Jonathan Huyer]

This forum is very timely, since I just got the lens as a birthday present. I am definitely one lucky guy! Here's a shot from the Calgary Zoo (I love the zoo). I kept the lens at f/1.2 the whole time I was there, since it was so much fun. The only "problem" I encountered was not being able to capture a shot in bright light conditions, because the exposure was requiring a shutter speed faster than the camera limit of 1/8000s (!).


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[Keith B]

The only "problem" I encountered was not being able to capture a shot in bright light conditions, because the exposure was requiring a shutter speed faster than the camera limit of 1/8000s (!).

That is funny, I have actually used the L ISO (50 ISO) setting on my 5DII just so I could continue shooting at 1.2. I guess maybe a good ND filter may be needed. I think most people get them for lower shutter speeds not wider apertures.

[wickerprints]

Regarding the ISO 50 setting on the 5D2, it is not a "real" sensitivity change. It is equivalent to ISO 100 overexposed one stop, then pulled back one stop from RAW. So you are not actually realizing a true decrease in sensitivity in the highlights.

[Keith B]

Regarding the ISO 50 setting on the 5D2, it is not a "real" sensitivity change. It is equivalent to ISO 100 overexposed one stop, then pulled back one stop from RAW. So you are not actually realizing a true decrease in sensitivity in the highlights.

Yeah I know, I guess I should have said "I resorted to using..."

[neuroanatomist]

The only "problem" I encountered was not being able to capture a shot in bright light conditions, because the exposure was requiring a shutter speed faster than the camera limit of 1/8000s (!).

As Keith suggested, a good ND filter is what you need. I ran into this "problem" shooting outdoor portraits with my EF 85mm f/1.8, which is why I now have a B+W ND #103 (0.9/3-stop). I find that to be sufficient (although I also have a #110/3.0/10-stop for long daylight exposures). Obviously, you can just go out on a bright day and stop down the lens to determine what strength of ND filter you need. Going a stop too far on the ND filter is not really an issue, IMO, since there's really no penalty going from ISO 100 to ISO 200 to get the stop back.

Like A LOT of folks base the quality and value of a lens on sharpness and the 1.8 will definitely give you that. The 1.2 gives you sharpness and a lot of character not found in other lenses (not saying the 1.8 doesn't have any character). If sharpness is all you crave then the 1.2 may be a waste of $1500.

Well, I like sharpness and that's one of the characteristics I use to judge lens performance - but it's only one characteristic of several. From reviews, the 85mm f/1.2L is not less sharp than the 85mm f/1.8 at the same apertures across the range; the same cannot be said of the 50mm f/1.2L, where it's lesser brother and it's distant, poor cousin both best it stopped down. But again, that's bested in terms of sharpness, which was (if I recall the way Daniel described) intentionally sacrificed in the optical design of the 50L, in favor of a more pleasing bokeh.

If you have a deep down body need for super shallow DOF and really can see the bokeh difference between the 1.2 and 1.8 at comparable f-stops (it is substantial, but some don't see it), then buy the lens.

I can certainly see it in others' shots, although I've never shot at f/1.2 myself. However, I have used my EF 85mm f/1.8 for several months - while I have some wonderful shots with that lens, I'm bothered by the purple/green fringing in some of my favorite shots, I find the bokeh a bit 'rough', and I've been in quite a few situations where one more stop of aperture would have really helped.

If you have the cash and it won't make you miss a car or mortgage payment.

Not an issue. Thus my "wallet full of $100's" post - my camera gear budget comes from outside consulting that I do, in addition to my day job as a scientist. The day job pays for the house, the cars, the other essentials, and 'little things' like the wood floors we had put in several downstairs rooms earlier this week - and the pair of iPhone 4's that will be pre-ordered soon. Although I don't spend too much time on theon-the-sideconsulting, it pays $200-300/hour, and that means despite buying a 100-400mm in March, a 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II in April, and a 24-105mm f/4L in May, the wallet is bulging again...


Thanks, Keith, for your comments and helpful advice, and to you and others for posting excellent examples!

[ddt0725]

As Keith suggested, a good ND filter is what you need. I ran into this "problem" shooting outdoor portraits with my EF 85mm f/1.8, which is why I now have a B+W ND #103 (0.9/3-stop).

I just received the same ND filter in the mail today ...it's actually my first ND filter so I will see how I like it tomorrow.

the wallet is bulging again

I can imagine how uncomfortable that must be so since I have a severe obsession with this lens, I truly will not mind helping you find some comfort by letting you buy one for me while you are at it!! [] Hmmm, probably not, huh?


Well, since I FINALLY completed my miscellaneous list of this that and everything, I am completely focused again on my lens wish list! The 85mm 1.2L is at the top of it followed by the 70-200mm f/2.8 ...depending of course on what Canon comes out with in September since I won't be able to buy another lens until probably next spring! [:'(]

Denise

[btaylor]

Well, since I FINALLY completed my miscellaneous list of this that and everything, I am completely focused again on my lens wish list!

Sounds like you have bulging wallet syndrome too Denise! You've accumulated more gear in the last 6 months than I have since starting out with my old Minolta Maxxum 7000 in 1995!!!