1D Mark IV or new 70-200

[Richard Lane]

Matt,


Since you have a lot of nice glass already, you should definitely get the Mk IV, especially since you already have the 300mm f/2.8 and 400mm f/2.8. I have the 70-200mm f/2.8L II and it

[JJphoto]

Since you have a lot of nice glass already, you should definitely get the Mk IV

100% agreed


both 1D IV and 70-200mm2.8 II are good stuff with a overpriced tag IMHO, it's a money issue, like HD has said, maybe the only one can answer your question is yourself.


thanks for wasting our time[](just kidding)

[HDNitehawk]

, the only other parameter that I would like to see you add to your evaluation would be to include moving subjects, as well as stationary ones, because as you are aware, that is certainly where the 7D and the MkIV really shine, as compared to the 5D.

On those issues I believed it to be an obvious given that the 7D and the 1D MK IV would be superior to the 5D Mark II with moving objects. I was trying to find out if I would loose any image quality by switching, since with wildlife usualy I was having to crop a lot of the time with the 5D.


I bought the 7D in November, I am not convinced yet it is more accurate than the 5D Mark II on stationary subjects yet. On the tests with lensalign I have done with both cameras and the 500mm the 5D is more accurate. I plan on only using the 7D on the 500mm so I couldn't speak to its accuracy on other lenses. In the field its hard to compare, but it doesn't seem like my keeper rate has improved.


I have not seen any comparisons from any one that would say the 1D Mark IV is the better wildlife camera, or that the 7D is better because of the crop factor (or whatever other reason). That is why sometimes I wonder if I should have went to the 1D Mark IV instead of the 7D.

[JJphoto]

I have not seen any comparisons from any one that would say the 1D Mark IV is the better wildlife camera, or that the 7D is better because of the crop factor (or whatever other reason). That is why sometimes I wonder if I should have went to the 1D Mark IV instead of the 7D.

this is what I found in Bryan's review


"
My experience is that the 7D does not perform quite as well as the 1-Series bodies in these situations. (Bryan was talking about Al Servo AF performance)


The percentage of OOF shots (they tend to be focused behind the
direction the subject is traveling)
I experience with the 7D is higher than I experience with the 1-Series
bodies.
Said another way, if your living depends on your ability to capture
action quickly moving toward or away from your camera, I recommend that
you get a Canon 1-Series body.
If you can afford to have a somewhat higher percentage of missed shots
in these situations, the Canon EOS 7D performs very well for the price -
better than any other Canon APS-C body I've used to date.


with better performance of AF(tracking moving object), ISO, better IQ(sharpness, contrast, color etc.) faster burst rate and shutter lag........, 1dIV will no doubt be my first choice if money is not a issue


I have been wanting this ID IV body for a while, just feel painful when thinking of spending 4 grand on it.

[neuroanatomist]

I am not convinced yet it is more accurate than the 5D Mark II on stationary subjects yet.

The accuracy should be about the same when using the center AF point on a stationary object in good light. I've found that the off-center AF points on the 7D are much better than the off-center points on the 5DII. Also, in low light the 5DII center point seems to lock on better than the 7D center AF point, but in low light the off-center points on the 5DII seem to hunt for focus a lot more than the off-center points on the 7D. The 7D tracks moving subjects much better than the 5DII.


So, overall it's a mixed bag but on balance I'd say the 7D AF wins in good light and the 5DII AF wins in poor light (assuming you're using the center point).


Certainly, a 1DIV or 1DsIII would trump both in the AF department...

There was a thread I initiated a while back, comparing a croped picture from a 5D to the same size pic of a 7D....I often wondered if I shouldn't have put the 1D Mark IV in to that mix to see how it faired, IQ wise for a croped pic compared to the 7D.

That would have been interesting! Here's a link to the thread you mentioned, with the comparison images I shot with 7D vs. 5DII and the processing that Daniel did to the RAW files. I certainly would like to have had a 1DIV to put to the same test... [:P]


--John

[HDNitehawk]

So, overall it's a mixed bag but on balance I'd say the 7D AF wins in good light and the 5DII AF wins in poor light (assuming you're using the center point).





That would have been interesting! Here's a link to the thread you mentioned, with the comparison images I shot with 7D vs. 5DII and the processing that Daniel did to the RAW files. I certainly would like to have had a 1DIV to put to the same test..

One of the things I have come to realize, is that you actually loose light by switching to the 7D which hurts somewhat with the AF. But not necessarily a bad way, because of the crop factor you have to shoot at a tighter aperture to get the same DOF. This becomes real noticeable when birds are getting real close and you want to have the whole bird in focus. The loss of light either translates in to slower speeds, which the 500mm you need all the speed you can get, or higher ISO which is not good either. But.....what a I keep telling myself is that to get the same field of view I would have had to get a 800mm for the 5D, and in that regard with the 7D with the 500mm you have an equivalent of a 5D with a 800mm F4 with the 500mm on the 7D having a wider DOF than an 800mm at equal apertures.


So there is some trading off of things to go to the 7D from 5D, but I would have rather not been trading off light. With other lenses I probably wouldn't have noticed this as much but with the 500mm speed is everything hand held.


I would have bought the 1D Mark IV, over the 7D if I had thought it could do better. I tried to find information on the web comparing the two, but I didn't find much that was help full. Richard's post peaked my interest when I read that he owned both, as he might have some insight on this.


Rick

[neuroanatomist]

With other lenses I probably wouldn't have noticed this as much but with the 500mm speed is everything hand held.

There's an effect of loss of light if you stop down your aperture by 1.3 stops to get the same depth of field you'd get on the FF (e.g. you'd need f/6.4 on the 7D to achieve the same DoF as f/4 on the 5DII). But if you keep the aperture the same (and live with the shallower DoF on the 7D), the shutter speed should be the same. But in terms of handholding, the narrower angle of view does mean you need a faster shutter speed (e.g. the crop factor applies to the 1/focal length guideline) - in the auto exposure modes, the camera accounts for that, e.g. in Av mode with auto ISO and a 100mm lens, the 5DII will try to keep the shutter speed above 1/100 s, while the 7D will try to keep it above 1/160 s.

[HDNitehawk]

in the auto exposure modes, the camera accounts for that, e.g. in Av mode with auto ISO and a 100mm lens, the 5DII will try to keep the shutter speed above 1/100 s, while the 7D will try to keep it above 1/160 s

Thanks John, thats good info to know. What really caught my attention on the light and DOFis close up bird shots, I like to do drive by shootings of birds [6] sort of. I have land in the country, and occasionaly will drive the country roads looking for unsuspecting birds to shoot out the drivers side window. What I noticed is that close up I wasn't getting enough DOF to cover smaller birds. Where the 500mm on the FF body I could shoot all day at F4 and never notice.


Rick

[neuroanatomist]

What I noticed is that close up I wasn't getting enough DOF to cover smaller birds. Where the 500mm on the FF body I could shoot all day at F4 and never notice.

Indeed - I often shoot my 7D with the 100-400mm at 400mm f/6.3 or f/7.1 for the same reason.

[Fast Glass]

or the use of 1.4x extender which will cause you to lose an f-stop,

If you have the same DOF you have the same noise if sensor technology is the same, which in this case it's not. The 1D IV has andnewer sensor and have better noise for the same DOF. Using a extender or croppingresults in the same DOF, wether you are using an extender or cropping you will lose just as much light. You don't quite lose one stop of light with a 1.4X extender, a 1.5X extenderwould be exactally one stop. You lose 1.4 times worth of light, you lose 1.6 times of light, you 2 times worth of light. Don't look at conversion factors only when deciding between cameras, noise and reach.


John.