3D effect, how do you do it? How does it work?

[Steve U]

Thanks for chiming in Daniel, I thought "chiaroscuro" was just a thin pasta I hadn

[Sheiky]

Interesting thread. It got me thinking and it lead me to the next theory. I think it is actually a lot easier than you all think. (Gonna start a debate here [A])


When I saw this thread it reminded me of a test photo that I made(my brother made it) of me in our backyard. We used my new 50mm f1.4 @ f1.4(and I was amazed by the same effect at that time). Unfortunately I cannot find it anymore and I probably threw it away(it was a much better example than the next one, because it showed more foreground). I did find another one of my girlfriend. Although it is a bad photo, I think it shows the effect that you're looking for:





This one is shot at f1.4 so it has a shallow depth of field. However here is my theory:


Although it has a shallow depth of field, the entire person is "sharp". In my opinion that is where the 3D effect comes to play. It's not just simple thin Depth of Field. It is separating a subject by the use of Depth of Field while remaining optimal full sharpness on your subject.


In this shot you can see that my girlfriend looks "sharp" all the way, however both fore and background are blurry. If there was only partial sharpness on the subject, I think the 3D effect wouldn't be as obvious.


In the snowy family shot from Jonathan Huyer you can see the same thing. Perfect overall sharpness on the subjects and the rest is blurred.


In the meantime I have found another example of my little sister. Also shot with the 50mm on f1.4:





And here's what happens when you remove the foreground blur, you can see that the 3D effect disappears and it looks like the more common use of Depth of Field:





So in short: My theory is that it's a mixture between thin Depth of Field, with a good ratio of fore and background blur (you must have both), while retaining your subject in focus completely.


These shots are at f1.4, but I don't think it's necessary. I think you could do it as well with a narrower aperture, albeit you probably need to increase your focal length and subject distance to get the same idea.


Cheers,


Jan

[Steve U]

Nice contributions Jan and I agree your girlfriend is sharp all the way. Your sister does tend to jump out of this image. Is there any artefacts from the sharpening? I don't know.


John the right hand shot of your little darlin' shows significant depth, but it doesn't show the same separation as Jan's girlfriend. Again I wonder if this is merely a PP addition or it is the sum of all the factors that Daniel mentioned all lining up to get the 3D.


I think once you get the hang of it, it could easily become overused and overworked.


But I haven't managed to produce anything near this 3D effect. I'd like to be able to.


So far it seems to be a quality that is not that common, I think some of the bird experts may have some good examples that show the 3D pop.


Steve

[HDNitehawk]

But I haven't managed to produce anything near this 3D effect. I'd like to be able to.

Steve


I do not know how much you work your pictures after you take them. I see you have a 7D so a little insight, I have a 5D Mark II and about three months ago bought the 7D to use with my 500mm. While the 7D picture can get close to or even edge out the 5D on a croped picture, it takes more work. I can get the 7D pictures to look as good as the 5D's look, but I have to add contrast, add sharpness and play with the other settings. I do this in DPP and usualy finding myself adding +2 or so to contrast, adjusting exposure to balance it out...going to +4 or +5 to sharpen and what ever other adjustment I need to make before I process it.


You certainly have the tools to do the job. Your 24mm if it is the II version has outstanding contrast and on your croped frame you can certainly try some of the DOF things people have shown here. I would suggest finding a DOF calculator on line and reviewing DOF at various distances so you can kind of see how to play with it. [View:http://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html:550:0]

[HDNitehawk]

Steve, I have seen some of your past pictures. Your not that far off producing some of the effect you are talking about. Take for example the pic of the wine bottles you posted.[View:http://community.the-digital-picture.com/image_presentation1/f/15/t/5486.aspx:550:0]


Some would say that pic had that effect somewhat. With just a little change in background and foreground I think it would really have the look you were going for. What detracts from having that look are the people in the background, they draw your eye away from the bottles.

[Andy Stringer]

I think some of the bird experts may have some good examples that show the 3D pop

I have some images of emperor penguin chicks that 'pop'.


5D Mark II, EF70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM @ 75mm, f/7.1, 1/1600s, ISO 100


5D Mark II, EF17-40mm f/4L USM @ 40mm, f/8, 1/1000s, ISO 100

Pictures of birds in flight don't usually have foreground elements to put out of focus. In the following example, I've taken advantage of the motion blur of the wing tips and the ice floe in the background to make this northern fulmar pop.


5D Mark II, EF24-105mm f/4L IS USM @ 105mm, f/5.6, 1/250s, ISO 100 (cropped to ~300mm equivalent field of view)

[Steve U]

Steve, I have seen some of your past pictures. Your not that far off producing some of the effect you are talking about. Take for example the pic of the wine bottles you posted.[View:http://community.the-digital-picture.com/image_presentation1/f/15/t/5486.aspx:550:0]


Some would say that pic had that effect somewhat. With just a little change in background and foreground I think it would really have the look you were going for. What detracts from having that look are the people in the background, they draw your eye away from the bottles.
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Thanks Rick for the encouragement and for taking the time to review some of my stuff, I am going to try and play around with this over the next week. I've bookmarked the DoF calculator and see if I can create the "perfect storm" of factors to try and make this happen.


Cheers,


Steve

[Steve U]

@Andy, nice examples Andy. The first penguin looks like he is not happy to be off to work again, the secong one looks like he is standing outside the principals office and the third does pop.


As Rick has pointed out the 5D does a great job with contrast, but who

[HDNitehawk]

Andy


Your third pic does pop, but the thing that really jumps out is the thought "where were you at to get that perspective"

[Andy Stringer]

I have to say the penguin chicks lost some of their 'pop' after downsizing. Sorry if it wasn't the best illustration of a 3D effect, but thanks for the comments anyway.

"where were you at to get that perspective"

I was on a ship near Svalbard, to the north of Norway. There were a few fulmars flying around the ship just below the upper deck level, so I was able to get a perspective looking down on one of them. As you can see, there wasn't much else to take pictures of that day. This one was taken within half an hour of the shot I posted above, to give you an idea of the situation.



I agree that the 5D Mark II does a good job with contrast. It's not renowned for it's performance with birds in flight, but I have found that if you take enough pictures, you make your own luck.