ND Filter Advice wanted

[Kayaker72]

Hi Rick.....


That should be a great trip....I love Yellowstone.


I think John covered your questions, but I just wanted to add a little based on my brief waterfall experience:

• No filter: I've been able to get down to the 1/4 to 0.5 sec shutter speeds for smaller waterfalls, typically under tree cover and low overall light (early late in the day, heavy cloud cover)
• CPL (~1.7 stops).Thus far I've only been able to use a CPL to get in the necessary shutter speed range for smaller waterfalls that are under tree cover.
• B+W 106 (6 stops)---it was worked well for overcast days (ISO 100 and f/~5.6 to f/8)for exposed waterfals (so larger waterfalls, no tree cover). A couple of observations about this filter:
  
  • Itdefinitely "warms" the shot. AWB on my 7D does a great job in compensating for this, but if I use a preset such as cloudy or sunny, there is very obvious effects on WB. In post, I've compensated by adjusting color tempto 4400K to 4700K.
  • AE and AF still work with this filter.Sometimes the 7D does notindicate focus lock (beep or flash). It usually it does, but not always. But even the times it doesn't, looking at those photos they were still in focus and properly exposed. (EDIT---on a recent trip the AE still worked but underexposed by ~1 stop).
  
  
• I haven't yet had the opportunity to test the filters on a waterfall in direct sun (say lower falls from Artists Point.... []), but I suspect I would be able to either drop my aperture down to f/11-f/22 range with the B+W106or stack a CPL on top of it.
• Remember filter wrenches. Having now used B+W screw in filters and step up rings on a couple of waterfall trips the filters jam in the step up ringstoo often. I've started not screwing them in all the way, which, of course, makes me worryabout the filter falling off . So a good set of filter wrenches or rubber bands are needed if you are going to stay with the B+W screw in series.
• In regard to image quality, I have found that the B+W106 (non-MRC)to beextremely good. I can look at 100% crops and I have not seen any effect in IQ. However, if you get this as well, I recently tried to photograph a GBH with the B+W Grad 102. 100% cropswith the grad 102were definitely negatively impacted. I hadn't noticed this in uncropped or slightly cropped images, but it is definitely an impact when looking at 100% crops using the B+W Grad 102.I am sure others here know, but my current assumption is that the B+W 106 ND is glass while the grad 102 is a resin.

It sounds like you want to stay with B+W, which is what I did, but, honestly, I may somedayswitch to the Cokin or Lee filter systems.Right now I can seeseveral benefits of those rectangular systems:

1. Decrease the potential for the threads jamming.
2. The B+W filters currently cause vignetting at wide angles. I believe this may be better with the retangular systems.
3. The ability to "feather" a graduated filter (moving the filter up and down during the exposure to blurr the graduated line).
4. I suspect that it is a little easier to alternate filters.

Maybe not a huge deal andI am happy with my B+W series.They work well and were less expensive than the rectangular system I was looking at.


Have a great trip.


Brant

[HDNitehawk]

Thanks Guys, I really appreciate the responses


Sean I considered, although didn't really research it allot, a filter like you described. My first thought is that just starting out trying this I wanted full control over how much I modify the light. My thoughts were keep it simple and straight forward for now. I will check in to the Genus more though.


John, as always thanks for the detailed response. I think I will be following your advice.


Brant, I just wrote a wrench down on my shopping list. I to think the rectangular systems is where I will eventually end up, but for now it seems the threaded filters will be the easiest.


Graduated filters were mentioned and there is something I was going to try, with all the advances in photoshop and the ease at which you can process a simple HDR, can you get the same effect as the filter by shooting several of the same landscape shots and combine them. For instance take one with the right exposure for sky, one for the ground then split the difference for one shot and combine all three. I have tried this on indoor pictures and as long as the subject is steady it seems to work. My only problem with HDR is that most people over do it in my opinion, it comes out artificial, possibly it can not be over done enough to still feel real.

[neuroanatomist]

Graduated filters were mentioned and there is something I was going to try, with all the advances in photoshop and the ease at which you can process a simple HDR, can you get the same effect as the filter by shooting several of the same landscape shots and combine them.

A similar topic came up in a recent dPS article:Comparing Gradient Neutral Density Filters To Lightroom Gradient Tool. The author's conclusion was that, "...using tools in the computer after the fact is not a replacement for making sure data is captured correctly to begin with."


The problem with HDR for landscape shots is movement - wind in trees, waves, etc., all cause ghosting in HDR images.

[Sean Setters]

This morning it was very bright so I took fitted my Genus ND Fader Filter onto my 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5. At 10mm, the cross-hatch pattern does indeed appear when you rotate the filter close to the maximum setting. However, it looked pretty clean at the 3/4 marker (except for a extra vignetting in two corners...it looks like I was just on the fringe of where the cross-hatching would start). If I had backed it off a bit more, I'm pretty sure the 2 corner vignetting would have disappeared. Anyway, at that opacity, I was able to shoot at f/16 for 1/8 second to get the following shot:

[neuroanatomist]

Thanks for the testing, Sean! That's certainly acceptable - and importantly for me, the Genus Vari-ND comes in an 82mm filter (which fits my EF 16-35mm f/2.8<span style="color: #ff0000;"]L II and TS-E 24mm f/3.5<span style="color: #ff0000;"]L II - else, the darkest screw-in ND available is merely 2 stops).


Any idea how many stops (approximately) that 3/4 setting on the vari-ND represents?


--John

[andnowimbroke]

When going that wide, does a step-ring help or hurt? Say you buy a really oversized Vari and use a ring, does that allow you to use more of the adjustment because the lens isn

[ddt0725]

Wow, lots of info here that I wasn't aware of! I wish I would have known some of this before I took my first waterfall photos on Friday using my Genus ND Fader filter! I think I would have done alittle testing with that and my B+W ND filter.


I already posted this in another thread but here seems appropriate also. This shot of a small waterfall was taken midday w/ partial shade and direct bright sun in some spots.




I'm looking forward to seeing some photos when you get back from your trip andgetting some more education!

Denise

[Sean Setters]

Thanks for the testing, Sean! That's certainly acceptable - and importantly for me, the Genus Vari-ND comes in an 82mm filter (which fits my EF 16-35mm f/2.8<span style="color:#ff0000;"]L II and TS-E 24mm f/3.5<span style="color:#ff0000;"]L II - else, the darkest screw-in ND available is merely 2 stops).


Any idea how many stops (approximately) that 3/4 setting on the vari-ND represents?


--John

To be honest, I'm unsure. It's not a linear progression when it comes to the opacity, so I know it's not 6 stops. I'll try to remember to do another test tomorrow to see how many stops it is at the 3/4s marker.


-Sean

[Kayaker72]

Rick. I am at niagara falls. Got in last night so my first shots where this morning. To get good blur of the water I needed longer exposure than with a smaller falls (water has further to fall?). Anyways, I needed ~1-2 sec instead of the 1/4 to 1/2 sec with smaller falls. I ended up at 2 sec f/22 iso 100 with the 106. I may stack the cpl to get down around f/11, but you may also want to consider the B+w 110.


Andnowiambroke. The step up rings neither help nor hurt. The two factors you mention offset each other. At least with my set up of the 72-77 mm step up. Ultimately I get similar vignetting with a 77 mm cpl and step up ring as the 72 mm cpl. Perhaps I

[Sean Setters]

Any idea how many stops (approximately) that 3/4 setting on the vari-ND represents?


--John

I did another quick test today. This time, I used shutter priority so that my shutter speed was constant. With the Genus set to the 3/4s mark, the camera set the aperture to f/5. With the ND filter off, the camera set the aperture to f/16. That's means you can achieve approximately a 3 1/3 stop reduction on a 16mm equivalent focal length without obvious cross hatching. With longer focal length, I imagine you could push more. Keep in mind, the rest of the 3.33 - 8 stop reduction comes in the last fourth of the markers. The change goes from very gradual to very sharp at the end. That said, the filter does a pretty good job of holding to a setting once you've got it fine tuned.