Refurbished or Recertified?

[HelenOster]

<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto;" class="MsoNormal"]<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-language: HE;"]I usually answer the questions, but today I have a question. We're looking for your views and opinions, so feel free to say as much or as little as you want!<o></o>
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto;" class="MsoNormal"]<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-language: HE;"]Most of you will be familiar with buying refurbished cameras and lenses, and some will be aware that one of the big manufacturers introduced a new requirement recently - that we can no longerindicate on our website which factory has refurbished the equipment we sell.<o></o>
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto;" class="MsoNormal"]<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-language: HE;"]As I've posted a few times in response to enquiries, all refurbished products sold by Adorama have been factory refurbished by the manufacturerand come with a 90 day return-to-Adorama warranty; 14 days from date of receipt for a full refund, and the balance for repair or replacement. They have all been restored to the exact manufacturer specifications by the original manufacturer. <o></o>
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto;" class="MsoNormal"]<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-language: HE;"]In the interest of clarity, we need to find a way to be informative and transparent, without breaking any of the terms of the agreement with our suppliers. <o></o>
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto;" class="MsoNormal"]<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-language: HE;"]One suggestion is that we describe these items on our website as 'recertified'. We'd love to know what you think. Would that description make you nervous? Have you any other thoughts?<o></o>
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto;" class="MsoNormal"]<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-language: HE;"]NB I will be posting this text on other forums; I hope you will understand that there is no intention to 'SPAM', but in truth, there aren't too many ways that I can reach out to all our customers asking what can only be an identical question!<o></o>
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto;" class="MsoNormal"]<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-language: HE;"]Thank you<o></o>


<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;"]Sincerely<o></o>


<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;"]Helen <span class="goog-spellcheck-word"]Oster
<span class="goog-spellcheck-word"]Adorama Camera Customer Service Ambassador<o></o>


<st1ersonname w:st="on"]<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;"]helen.oster@adoramacamera.com</st1ersonname><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;"]<o></o>


<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;"]www.adorama.com<o></o>
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[Dallasphotog]

As a customer who has already purchased a lot of "Refurbished by Canon" items, the change in description wouldn't impact me.The only thing that crossed my mind washowI would search your webpage (LOL). For a new buyer, the term recertified seems to convey the same basic meaning.


If the product is stillarriving in theobviously OEM brown box, I thinkconfidence levels will remain.


My daughter is a high school photojournalist and we built her entire kit off of the refurbished list!

[40Doodle]

Hi Helen,


I actually think both terms are appropriate because they are both being applied to the returned product that Adorama subsequently resells. The product is being recertified to meet manufacturer performance standards and it is being refurbished to correct any defects (functional and cosmetic) so that a portion of the warranty can be applied/continued. If it were my decision, I would note that the camera products are recertified refurbished by the manufacturer.


I didn't quite follow the thing about Adorama "not being able to indicate which factory" refurbished the equipment. If that meant (for instance) that Canon would not want you to say that a lense was refurbished by Canon factory A versus Canon factory B, then I would have to say they have a point. Stating the actual factory that performs the work could create issues whereby customers insist on a specific factory where the refurb is performed based upon customer preference and need. However, from a customer perspective, I'd prefer knowing that product was refurbed buy a factory closer to me (in the US in my situation). That can mean less transit time, US workers involved in the work, etc.


Rick

[HelenOster]

Thanks for your response - to clarify, the manufacturers are no longer allowing us to state refurbished by C _ _ _ _ on our website - even though everything we sell IS refurbished in a factory run by the manufacturer, and of course, a customer ordering one would be in no doubt that it was when it arrived'cos it will still have the little sticker on the bottom!


I also take the point about searching the term 'refurbished' - we need to ensure that the word links to the page(s) of recertified products; thank you for raising that one.


<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;"]Sincerely<o></o>


<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;"]Helen <span class="goog-spellcheck-word"]Oster
<span class="goog-spellcheck-word"]Adorama Camera Customer Service Ambassador<o></o>


<st1ersonname w:st="on"]<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;"]helen.oster@adoramacamera.com</st1ersonname><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;"]<o></o>


<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;"]www.adorama.com<o></o>

[40Doodle]

Thanks for that clarification Helen. I would absolutely say that it is important (to me) to know that the product was refurbished by the manufacturer (by name). Otherwise, the customer may wonder if someone at Adorama, 3rd party company, etc is doing the work. For me, it would be very important to know that the manufacturer is doing the work. Nothing against Adorama (or any other party), but with things like lenses, it's a deal killer for me if I can't know that the manufacturer actually did the work on the lense. Otherwise I would choose "new" or take my chances outside of Adorama on a "used product".


Reading your statement "the manufacturers are no longer...", are you saying that other manufacturers don't want you using the word "Canon" in your refurbished statements or is it Canon themselves that doesn't want their name used? I would have trouble understanding why Canon would have an issue since it's their products being resold and that is goodness for the customer. If the other manufacturer's don't like it, I say tough-noogies, because it's important to the customer that they know who is doing the work.


Rick

[HelenOster]

Rick





You are absolutely correct to be concerned. Even with Adorama's 30+ years and relatively high regard in the business, I still respond to at least 3 or 4 forum or blog postings every week querying whether Adorama actually refurbishes the items we sell. We don't - and when the customer receives his or her order, the little gold sticker on the bottom is verification of that.


It is the manufacturers of the items themselves who have brought in this requirement, out of concern that some retailers might not be completely transparent in stating that the warranty is through the retailer, rather than the manufacturer.


<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;"]Sincerely<o></o>


<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;"]Helen <span class="goog-spellcheck-word"]Oster
<span class="goog-spellcheck-word"]Adorama Camera Customer Service Ambassador<o></o>


<st1ersonname w:st="on"]<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;"]helen.oster@adoramacamera.com</st1ersonname><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;"]<o></o>


<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial;"]www.adorama.com<o></o>

[Bob]

<span style="font-size: 9pt; color: black; font-family: 'Verdana','sans-serif';"]Helen,<o></o>


<span style="font-size: 9pt; color: black; font-family: 'Verdana','sans-serif';"]I look at this equipment as &ldquo;used equipment&rdquo; that failed and was reworked to make it function again. That can be good and bad, shorter warrantee and just because it was reworked does not make it better or equal to new equipment. It is better than buying third party used equipment since you can get your money back if you are disappointed.Otherwise, the price usually is not discounted very much for used equipment.If you gave a full warrantee, I would be more inclined to buy it. Changing the name does not change what you are buying.<o></o>


<span style="font-size: 9pt; color: black; font-family: 'Verdana','sans-serif';"]Bob<o></o>

[40Doodle]

Ok, now I get it Helen...it's a who's providing the warranty kind of thing. I do understand that Canon could have a concern that customers may think it is Canon providing that 90 day warranty vs Adorama or some other reseller. I wasn't exactly clear on that myself.


I'm also trying to "wrap my head around" this whole thing with Canon and Adorama's refurbished product. Are the lenses that Adorama offers as refurbished typically less than a year old or are they fully outside of Canon warranty? If they are less than a year old, then Canon themselves is (I guess) able to divest themselves of their own warranty and responsibilities since the lense is changing hands?


This whole topic raises another question in my mind. If I were to send a lense for repair directly back to Canon (that was out of warranty), do they warranty that repair in any way?


To Bob's thoughts, I've read that a refurbished lense (by Canon) is better than new because it get's more personal technical attention than a lense off the production line. Is that really true or is it just a popular belief? I don't personally know, but it has always sounded plausible to me.


Rick

[Bob]

40Doodle,


<span style="font-size: 9pt; color: black; font-family: 'Verdana','sans-serif';"]The notion that the repair facility will do a better job than the factory is questionable. Having Canon's repair facility work on you lens/body does not mean it will be better, it could be worse. So I think that this notion is a way to make people feel better about buying used equipment.<o></o>


<span style="font-size: 9pt; color: black; font-family: 'Verdana','sans-serif';"]Your point about the age of the equipment is a good one. Why was it refurbished in the first place? The product failed and the repair facility could not repair it, so they gave the customer a new unit and had to send the "refurbished unit&rdquo; back to the factory, or was the new equipment damaged in shipment, etc., and cannot be sold as new.<o></o>


<span style="font-size: 9pt; color: black; font-family: 'Verdana','sans-serif';"]Bob<o></o>

[Mark Elberson]

Helen,


When are these changes going into effect? Like Dallasphotog said, as long as I know how to search for "refurbushed" goods I'll be fine. I know it's been brought up before in other threads but if there were some sort of an automated email system that let us know when a particular lens was available that would be terrific