Upgrading from my T1i and kit lens (18-55 IS v1 and 55-250 IS v1)

[dfedzina]

My wife and I really use our camera to take pictures of our young kids in action (not portraits), either outside or inside (often with a 430 EX II and sometimes a sto-fen omni-bounce). We don't do any post-processing, and very little cropping. I'm certainly not one who looks to see who sharp corners are, as i'm mostly concerned with the sharpness of the center. I do use my camera for video though. At the end of the day, I'm probably never going to be a full-frame user, and I probably won't be shooting "in the elements" to where weather-sealing is that important.

All that being said, would a person like me notice a somewhat significant increase in IQ for photos / videos if I went to either:
1)a 70D with 18-135STM
2)a better lense (17-55 f2.8 or 18-85f3.5/5.6) that's still wide enough (the 24-105 f/4.0 probably isn't wide enough with at 24mm).

I'm open to any other ideas <$1,500, but also want to say that I am not one to buy used or refurbished items.

P.S. I also have the nifty-fifty, but rarely use it, as my images with it end up coming out pretty soft (I must have a shaky hand that needs IS) since I never use a tri-pod.

Thanks in advance,
David

[trav.cunningham]

David,

I read your post and said, "Hey, that's me!" I also have a T1i with the 18-55 IS and 55-550 IS. I too will be upgrading to the 70D. I do not have experience with any other lenses but a question I would as is, "Are you happy with the results you are getting now?" I imagine the answer is no or why would you upgrade? So what are you not happy with?

For me the 70D became my upgrade choice for a couple of reasons. First, the auto focus (including the Dual Pixel AF). I have been longing for a better AF to capture my kids. The kicker is that the camera is just half of the equation. You also need a fast focusing lens, which I don't have. Both the 17-55 and the 15-85 are faster with USM than STM. So the lens choice is not only about IQ. Second, the DPAF. I always have a Canon HD camcorder and I am switching between the two constantly. With the 70D this switch will just be a switch. However, I plan on having the 18-135 STM be my go-to lens for video for the smooth and quite focusing. The third reason is the 7 fps. My sister got the 7D when it came out and I wanted it (but the wallet couldn't handle it ). The 70D comes very close to the 7D's 8 fps at the lower price. Other reasons for upgrading is the WiFi, better build, flash transmitter, etc, etc.

Here is what I am doing. Depending on your needs it may not be ideal, but I believe it will work for me. I will start of with the 70D with 18-135 STM. I will have to begin saving again and will get the 70-200 2.8. I am going with the 2.8 because I want it fast for my fast moving kids and I want the 2.8 to improve the AF at the center point (where I do most of my focusing). I am not getting the 70-200 2.8 IS II because it is way out of my price range. Next I will save for the 17-55. With the recent price drop it make is more reasonable. The 2.8 again for fast kids and better AF. Then I want the 100 2.8L macro. That might even come before the 17-55. I love macro and currently I use the 55-250 with the 500D macro lens attachment. Even with these other lenses I will keep the 18-135 for video and travel.

I don't know if this helps much but I thought I would share since I am in a similar situation.

All you more experienced photographers, please let me know if any of my thinking is flawed!

[dfedzina]

Trav,
to answer your question - overall i'm somewhat pleased, but still slightly dissappointed. Mostly due to the images being soft which I think has a lot to do with not focusing fast enough or accurate enough on more "action" shots with the kids playing or just being kids. Typically, when they are posing for the camera, those images come out sharp enough for me - especially knowing I didn't break the bank for my set-up. So I guess my question is a little more focused than previously posted...will action shots and just random shots be noticeably sharper with an upgrade to the 70D/18-135 STM combo? Will I get more keepers? Or am I better off just upgrading to a better all-purpose lense (see 1st post) and keeping the T1i? As I mentioned earlier, I do use the camera for video, so the AFMA would certainly be a nice bonus. Thoughts?

[Kayaker72]

Hi David

What mode do you typically shoot? M, Tv, Av, P or an auto mode? I wonder if your less than sharp images is cause by too low of a shutter speed. General rule of thumb is that a shutter speed equal to or greater than the focal length x crop factor should be sufficiently fast to give you sharp images (IS can be factored in). Unfortunately, the camera sometimes selects too slow of shutter speeds in auto, P, or Av modes.

For example, the 50 f/1.8 is extremely sharp at f/2.8-f/8 if you shoot it at 1/80 sec (50 mm x 1.6) or faster.

Just wondering if that could be part of the issue you've had.

[DavidEccleston]

That was me too. I started with a T1i, the 18-55mm IS, 50mm f/1.8, 85mm f/1.8. I picked up a 24-105mm, but didn't use it much. 24mm isn't wide on a crop body, and on the longer end the primes were sharper, faster aperture, and lighter, so we stuck to mainly the primes.

For fast action, we found the T1i's AI Servo couldn't keep up. We had lots of shots of blurred dogs with sharp tails, so we picked up a used 7D. While it improved things, we still had trouble getting sharp action shots consistently. We picked up a 70-300L because it was "affordable", and had good reach. That was when we started getting good sharp action shots.

I *think* getting sharp shots here it was a combination of factors. The lens is super sharp. The lens focuses super fast. Then there's the last one, I'm not sure about... I think it's important, but I've never heard anyone discuss it... Telephoto helps. The closer you are to your subject, the more work a lens has to do to compensate for subject movement. The longer telephoto lens means it's both less work move the lens elements to track motion, and the movement is at a more constant rate at a distance. Both of these factors will mean the camera/lens can track moving subjects better.

re: Kayaker's 1/80 sec w/ the 50mm... That's the rule of thumb *minimum* shutter speed, for static subjects. For moving kids, that's not going to work.

You'll want to ensure your shutter speed remains high-ish to avoid motion blur. The exact value depends on subject speed, zoom level, if you're panning with the subject, etc. For dogs we try to get a minimum of 1/1600s. To help keep the shutter speed up, don't be afraid to bump up the ISO. The T1i should be fine with ISO 800, and acceptable at 1600. I find Adobe (Photoshop, PS Elements, Lightroom) has better noise reduction than Canon's DPP.

So, yes, the 70D will help, you need an appropriate lens too. Something fast focusing (ring USM), and potentially longer telephoto. The 70-200mm f/4L (non IS) is the cheapest option here. Whether you can squeeze that into your budget with a 70D, I'm not sure.

[trav.cunningham]

@dfedzina - I miss-read your original question. If you options are better lens with the T1i or 70D and the 18-135 STM, I'm not sure which would be better. You will get better AF in the USM lenses, but better AF in the 70D. The advantage may be with the 70D 18-135 STM because the STM is better than the micro motor. You will get improved AF in both camera and lens than your current kit.

The advice from DavidEccleston and Kayaker72 is right on. I would suggest bumping up the shutter speed for a while and see if that helps.

Lastly, I have purchased two lenses refurbished from Canon (55-250 and 18-135 non-STM). I have been happy with both. They now have a year warranty and they go on sale every once in a while. I would give refurbished a second thought.

[HDNitehawk]

Hi David

What mode do you typically shoot? M, Tv, Av, P or an auto mode? I wonder if your less than sharp images is cause by too low of a shutter speed. General rule of thumb is that a shutter speed equal to or greater than the focal length x crop factor should be sufficiently fast to give you sharp images (IS can be factored in). Unfortunately, the camera sometimes selects too slow of shutter speeds in auto, P, or Av modes.

For example, the 50 f/1.8 is extremely sharp at f/2.8-f/8 if you shoot it at 1/80 sec (50 mm x 1.6) or faster.

Just wondering if that could be part of the issue you've had.

The issue does not sound like a body or Lens issue to me either. I would add to Kayaker's comments that it could also be an AF issue as well. For instance if you are in single shot mode a moving object can move out of the focus area quickly. Also using multiple points can compound the issue. Look at some of your picks and settings used. If you have fast shutter speeds and blurry pics I would look at other causes.

The T1 has the knob and the running man symbol setting. This is supposed to give you the fastest shutter speed. (however I wouldn't admit using it with this crowd) If you haven't tried it, I would to see what results you get.

Also read Bryan's review on this website, AF with action shots did not fair well in the review.

[Kayaker72]

Ugh..just lost a longer response as my session timed out. To quickly try to capture my response:

David,

First off, the lenses you own are pretty reasonable, especially for the price. I thought I recalled that the EFs 18-55 V1 had sharpness issues, but I've looked at a few charts and, for a kit lens, they looked pretty good.

To respond to your questions more directly:

• The 18-55 kit lens is actually pretty good and may fit your description of your photographic needs. But I can tell the difference between it and the group of lenses intended to be a step up. Those lenses include the EFs 15-85 and EFs 17-55 f/2.8 from Canon. Other lenses that should be a step up from the 18-55 include the Sigma 18-35 f/1.8 and Tamron 17-50 f/2.8 non-VC. I used to shoot with the EFs 15-85 on the 7D. Great combination and I highly recommend the EFs 15-85. I do have several friends that shoot with the 18-55 and 18-135 and I could see the difference between images capture with those lenses and the 15-85. BTW, you may want to consider one of the f/2.8 or f/1.8 lenses. They do let in more light so you can have faster shutter speeds to stop action in lower light situations. That could be beneficial for kids. But, if not, the 15-85 is a great general purpose lens.
• I would also expect you to see improvements from upgrading your body. Bryan compares every body with the EF 200 f/2. Here is a link comparing the t1i to the 70D. I only see slight improvements, but overall, I would expect to see "real world" improvements from recent bodies such as improved processing (especially if you continue to shoot JPEGs), MP, and auto-focus. I would consider the T4i, T5i, 60D and 70D. The 70D is likely the best as it has the 19 pt AF system from the 7D, the dual pixel AF for live view/video, and auto focus micro adjustment (AFMA-which allows you to fine tune the focus plane of a specific lens to a body to get more precise focus). The other bodies should also represent a step up.

I would recommend that you check the shutter speed on the shots that you aren't happy with. I agree with Rick and the use of focus points could also be an issue (try center focus only for awhile, if you don't already). Other than that I also noticed that you don't post process. So if you feel you have a general softness to your images, you may want to increase sharpness for in camera jpgs. But I also recommend shooting in RAW and post processing. It is the best way to get the most out of your photos. I use and recommend Lightroom. But Canon gives you DPP for free (I used it for a year, it is good) and DXO also offers post-processing software which is used and well regarded by a couple of forum members.

If you go through those steps and still want to upgrade, I would do one of three things:

1. If you can exceed your budget a little, purchase either the EFs 15-85 ($699 on amazon) or EFs 17-55 f/2.8 ($879) with the 70D
2. If you want to stay within your budget, I would still get one of those lenses with the Canon 60D ($699)
3. Develop an upgrade plan where you get the better lens or body this year and the other next year.

Good luck,
Brant

[peety3]

I know you say you're not one to buy used or refurbished items, but I have to mention that we have two 7D bodies, both purchased as 'refurbished' from Adorama. The only recognizable difference was the carton: it was glossy cardboard like anything else you'd get, but it was a simple white with a red Canon logo and a black stripe (or something like that), and it had some foam inside to make the contents fit the carton. Full manual set, not a scratch on the camera, typical "battery in a blue plastic bag" like every other Canon camera we've bought, full cable set. After >3 years of rough service, one of them needed to have the CF connector replaced, but I really can't fault the refurbished nature of the camera for that issue.

That said, I'd encourage you to consider the 70D plus a refurbished 18-200 from Adorama (I see one on their site for $350, which is half price versus new). A friend has the 18-200 on a 7D, and frankly I want to throw some of our 5 cameras and 8 lenses in a bag so I can follow him around and learn the art of his craft, as he shoots some fantastic stuff. My wife thinks it's because he never has to change lenses, nor does he even have to take two cameras and two lenses only to endlessly swap cameras to have the right lens for the shot.