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Thread: Bias

  1. #21
    Senior Member Raid's Avatar
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    Dec 2008
    Melbourne, Australia
    I came to TDP after using DPR for many years. There were a number of things about their reviewers and reviews that really annoyed me. There were always minor pet issues that they would complain about. Their favourite at the time was opening the card access door would stop the transfer. When Canon made a change they then bleated about Canon finally listening to their customers. I got the impression that this was more about showing the power of DPR than a major flaw in the design.

    When I first came across TDP I found the reviews very refreshing. I never thought that the reviews were in anyway biased. If a Canon Lens or body had issues it would be clearly detailed without glossing over it or going into a rant. When Tamron has a better feature, like warranty the facts are stated "Tamron USA's 6-year warranty far surpasses Canon USA's standard 1 year warranty".

    What sets TDP apart from the others are the Tools, they are simple to use and easy to understand. Most reviews are purely subjective but when you include the objective results from the tools you understand that its not just one persons opinion. Sites like DPR have attempted to add these features but I have yet to find anybody who understands how to use them.

    The Forum is not overly moderated there are no juvenile rules about what you can and cannot post. The technical advice from the Forum is second to none. The most popular Aus. site Australian "Bogan" Photography, it's all about posting as many "Great Shot" comments as you can. The technical advice is crap to give you some examples:

    • "The smaller the sensor pixels the greater the noise... its a fundamental law of physics so just accept it". No Stephen Hawking's here!
    • "The faster your Flash Card the less buffering, so buy the fastest you can". The user had a 40D so the transfer rate was limited by the body.

    Note: Pointing out the garbage just gets the post deleted for "Flaming", sad I know.

    I have sent many people to this site and they do use the reviews and tools a lot. The problem for those in Aus. is that your sponsored links are to US sites, which for us is Grey Market (and we cannot claim the rebates).

    So I regard this site, and the experts who inhabit it as the best DSLR site on the web, you should all be very proud of what you have been able to create.
    Canon EOS 7D, EF-S 10-22, EF 24-105L, EF 50 f1.2L, EF 70-300L, 430EX.

    "Criticism is something you can easily avoid, by saying nothing, doing nothing and being nothing." -
    Tara Moss

  2. #22
    Super Moderator Kayaker72's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    New Hampshire, USA
    I would consider the site "Canon centric" but I wouldn't really consider the site "biased." Part of that is just me being technical, but type "bias" into Bing and the first definition is "1. preference: an unfair preference for or dislike of something." I think we have a preference, but I wouldn't call it unfair. For example, when upgrading from the 7D to the 5DIII I spent months comparing it to the D800. This included technical but also evaluating the cost of the system and comparable lenses. I concluded the 5DIII and Canon were the better "systems" for the way I shoot. If I was primarily a landscape photographer, honestly, I would have gone Nikon. Part of my decision, but I just like the Canon look. I don't think that is "unfair." As an example, I've been evaluating the Sigma 35 f/1.4 Art (arrived yesterday). My final step before investing in a lens is to scroll through photo groups on flickr. I've held off on the Sigma for awhile because I just wasn't seeing enough shots that I loved taken with it. Frankly, I still find it odd how many of the shots posted on flickr that don't stand out for me. Last week I dove into that a little more and it turns out most of the shots I liked, taken with a Canon body. Most of the shots I didn't like, Nikon. I don't totally know why, although there is something in the color scheme, but it was a definite pattern. So, after seeing the pattern, I decided to give the lens a shot.

    That said, if anything right now I think a number of us have converged to a similar line of thinking. Consider filters, how many of us use B+W filters? I think there is a lot of general consensus right now in the forum. Part of that is Canon's fault...the 6D turned out to be a good camera with obvious differentiators compared to the 5DIII. There isn't much to discuss. You want FF but don't need 61 AF points, get the 6D. Need the AF points, get the 5DIII. Need a machine gun or to AE each AF point, get the 1DX. Not much to discuss. Similarly, iND brought up mirrorless systems and the comon response was about the EOS-M. But, I think for most of us the reasons are simple, we view the EOS-M as a back up to our DSLRs and the EOS-M backs-up Canon systems better/more cost effective than other mirrorless systems. I know of a couple of people that went Fuji, but they didn't chime in.

    I still find this to be a great website. As Canon introduces more gear, I am sure there will be more discussion of the gear. I am sure it will bring an influx of new interested members. But as the market matures and evolves, so, to an extent will the forum. I still come here for the interaction, I still appreciate the perspective and advice I get and and I am still inspired by by the shots I see posted here.

  3. #23

    The thing that strikes me most about this site is that it is filled with millions and millions of WORDS. Yet this is a photography site so would it not be helpful to catalogue the huge number of members pics that have been submitted into a lens and camera database. So you can see first hand real world examples versus the lens charts. I am sure from the many competitions there must be a huge picture database

    Thanx, Neil

  4. #24
    Senior Member Dave Throgmartin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Northern Illinois
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Throgmartin View Post
    One lens I've seen that sparks debate on the forums is the TDP ISO crops of the Tamron 70-300. My father in law owns both the Canon 70-300 IS and the Tamron. His A1 goto tele lens is the Tamron. When you compare the IQ results on various review sites these two lenses are basically the same.

    The ISO crops for the Tamron 70-300 are abysmal on the long end. It appears something was wrong with Bryan's copy when you compare versus images people capture and some of the other review sites.

    Some people cry bias, but I think they don't understand that not all copies are the same. In cases like this where something appears wrong testing a 2nd copy could be worth considering.

    I don't use 70-200 f/4 L USM a lot so given that I'm cleaning house a bit (have sold EOS M, EF-M 22mm, 135mm f/2) it made sense to do a comparison with the Tamron 70-300 VC that brings more features to the table for a lot less money, but figured to lack on image quality.

    I did a quick test at a local camera store taking pictures of a store front across the street from the sidewalk outside the shop. I used hand held phase detect AF on my 60D primarily because of the 60D not having AFMA capability and that if I was using 300mm there'd be a decent chance I would be using the crop body. I used my normal 60D JPG picture style settings of 5, 1, 2, 0.

    I understand this is not a great of a test for a variety of reasons, but if you're interested read on. If not please don't flame I was trying to work within the constraints of testing at a camera shop.

    70mm @ f/5.6 - Normal viewing is a push, Tamron is a fair deal better at 1:1.
    135mm @ f/5.6 - Normal viewing is a push and 1:1 viewing is nearly a push as well. Slight edge to Tamron.
    200mm @ f/5.6 - Canon clearly wins in normal viewing.
    Tamron @ 300 f/5.6 vs f/8 - The wide open shot does not look very good and the f/8 shot is a lot better. I think if I had my 1.4 extender for the Canon it would have been better at either aperture.

    For me the deal breaker was autofocus. The Canon is significantly faster when going from near to far and then from far to near. I did not buy the Tamron.

    All of that said, it is not an unusual occurrence when going on group photo trips (eagles, etc...) to see the Tamron 70-300 images better my Canon + extender setup. But, the sample I used at the camera shop today likely would be a very close match for Bryan's ISO crops. Especially if the interpretation of the 300mm f/8 ISO crops is a bit soft, but usable.


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