Full Frame…Help!

[peety3]

Alright, so full-frame is nice, but are the IQ improvements I saw purely because of the full-frame sensor, or is it partially 1D specific? I know the 1D series does more work in analog before converting to digital, and it handles highlights really nicely. Would I be happy with the 5D3 or 5Ds, or do I crave some secret 1D magic, pushing me to a 1DX or something? I'm assuming the 6D won't keep up with my sports AF requirements.

So yeah, it's definitely worth considering, but if you cheap out too much, you might end up with a camera you can't always use. Try to avoid that. The 6D is newer, and has higher ISO capabilities, and can likely be found for a similar price. On the other hand, it's likely like the Rebel of the full-frame line, and has less controls. Is there a limitation of the 6D or a feature of the 5D2 pushing you to the 5D2 over the 6D?

If I get to the point where I am seriously considering the full-frame upgrade, I'd probably rent each body on successive weekends, and compare the results vs. price differences to try and answer the "Do the magic 1D secret sauce exist?" question. That may not make as much sense in your price-range, where the rentals costs would be a fair chunk of the body price, but that's my thought process about the upgrade...

Disclaimer: my experience with 6D is limited to a single four-day rental because one of our 7D bodies was in for repair. I shot two charity walks with it, something we enjoy doing but absolute image quality is simply not a factor (getting the images culled/cropped/delivered fairly fast is). I didn't notice any secret sauce with that camera. I'd rented a 5D prior for a charity event, but wasn't experienced enough to really look for the sauce.

OMG, yes, there's some sort of secret sauce in FF. I feel like almost every EF (as in "every Canon lens that's not an EF-S") lens just makes more sense on FF, and the images are just more WOW across the board. This goes for 5D3, 5DsR, and 1Dx, having owned 40D, 7D, 1D3, and now 5D3, 5DsR, and 1Dx, while also having rented 5D, 5D2, 6D, and 7D2.

Amongst other things, years ago I had a nifty fifty. I used it on my 1D3, and once I finally went back to TDP's review and realized that it was best if I stopped down to f/2.8, I discovered that it was a decent lens, but felt the focal length just wasn't all that amazing (and with a 16-35/2.8, 70-200/2.8IS, and later a 24-70/2.8, it didn't serve a purpose, and got sold). Now that I've gone FF, I've picked up the 50/1.2 and wowsers. Sure, I can shoot with that lens for a while and just crank out magic all day long. I had a blast at a baby shower shooting the kiddos playing with bubbles and such.

[DavidEccleston]

OMG, yes, there's some sort of secret sauce in FF. ... This goes for 5D3, 5DsR, and 1Dx, having owned 40D, 7D, 1D3, and now 5D3, 5DsR, and 1Dx, while also having rented 5D, 5D2, 6D, and 7D2.

Okay, you're the guy to talk to then. So, "the sauce" is purely full-frame, and not 1D specific? If so, maybe a 5D3 is in my future. If I get "the sauce" without the weight or price of a 1D, then that sounds perfect.

(Hopefully this discussion is useful to jerrytech1, and anyone considering full-frame, too.)

[peety3]

Okay, you're the guy to talk to then. So, "the sauce" is purely full-frame, and not 1D specific? If so, maybe a 5D3 is in my future. If I get "the sauce" without the weight or price of a 1D, then that sounds perfect.

(Hopefully this discussion is useful to jerrytech1, and anyone considering full-frame, too.)

To summarize, yes, the 1Dx blew away my 1D3 by a mile. Both were 1-series high-frame-rate variants (no difference once you get to the 1Dx, but it was 1D vs. 1Ds back in the day of the 1D3), and it was only a 0.3x crop delta, not the full 0.6x of APS-C. It could have also been two generations of technological improvements, as the 5D3 didn't immediately jump out at me as magical, and we bought that one first, though admittedly it was a bribe to my wife ("here's a new camera. Hope you don't mind me buying a bunch of lenses now too.") and I didn't shoot much with it (still haven't). The 1Dx impressed me so much (moving from a 1D3/7D pairing to a 1Dx/1D3) that I bought a second 1Dx within 8 weeks, moving my beloved 1D3 from primary to benchwarmer in that amount of time.

Now, for the sake of mention, even though the 5D3 has the same AF sensor as the 1Dx, it doesn't have near the CPU horsepower (1 Digic vs. 3; 2 for imaging and 1 for AF/exposure), and IMHO this makes an appearance in how the AF works. To me, it's just not the same. I wasn't thrilled with it when I shot our dogs at the dog park with a 70-200/4IS (a fantastic performer IMHO), though again a disclaimer is relevant here: I was new to the menu options at the time. However, I found confirmation (and justification...) after reading this review: http://chrisgilesphotography.com/blo...g-photography/ and added a 5DsR to our fleet shortly thereafter. Wow. Just wow. I had been the strongest 1D-series addict known to my corner of the world for years, whether it be the build quality/feel in hand, control customization options (I was addicted to ISO on the big wheel, extremely useful in Av so the two sides of the triangle that I controlled were immediate knobs with no need for a button push prior), AF, IQ, whatever. Now, the 5DsR is my "first-alarm" camera for EVERYTHING unless bad weather, unpredictable sports, or a perceived need for an extra 1/3 stop of sync speed causes me to begrudgingly reach for a 1Dx. My second 1Dx has moved into my wife's bag to be her "long lens/action/high-frame-rate" camera.

So, not to turn you away from a 5D3, but do take a good, long, hard look at a 5Ds of one sort or the other. I'm still consistently blown away at the clarity and detail. Here's just one sample: I ordered a new softbox that's supposed to create a perfectly round catchlight (even though it's not round). I had a friend go along, set up the light, and took one shot (gosh I love TTL). 5DsR, 70-200/2.8IS (yes, the old model). I forget the EXIF but I think it's ISO 100, f/5.6 at 1/200th. I zoomed in on the LCD and said "You're wearing colored contacts!"...go ahead, zoom in on it: http://photos.templin.org/images/hexoval-102.jpg (yes, the lashes are fake too...I knew that already)