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Thread: RF, EOS R and new Tele Lenses

  1. #21
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    The more convenient MPEG-4 format for 4K video is certainly an advance. Compared to a DSLR, the decrease in size and weight of the "R" camera+lens combos is less than I would have guessed. Since I upgraded to the 5D MKIV not so long ago, I also will be on the sidelines for purchasing any full-frame mirrorless camera from this generation.

  2. #22
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    My week has been high distracting. My ponders on the new "R" goes something like this.

    Recall that I have EF lenses from 16-600, t/s 90, Art 24 & 50.

    With an R and the filter holder adapter,

    1. a single CPL, ND for all lenses.
    2. modestly stepped resolution from 5d3
    3. meh FPS (it is not a 1dx etc)
    4. 4k (again I don't shoot vid much)
    5. some of the magic lantern functions "native" - focus peaking, 4k time lapse (which I do like a lot)
    6. lots more focus points & lower light
    7. no need for AF micro adjustment
    8. quiter shutter/smaller size (the silent mode on the 5 is good enough for me and size... meh)

    W/ the 28-70 f2, if it is really good, I would ponder selling my 24/50 arts. Going to be interesting if the 24-105 out performs the EF versions...

    Might consider IR'ing the 5d3.

    Definitely sell the 1dx.

    Reality - I am not in the market for a new body (unless someone really wants the 1dx & 24/50 arts for a bit over $5k ). I might be able to swap the 1dx (gently used) for enough $$ to make a move to the R but that feels like a net step backward in functionality. For the same $$ I could get a 5Dsr, IR the 5D3 and have super high res, ML runs on the 5Dsr so I have plenty of the peaking, 8k time lapse, etc. that I would likely ever want. I know it is "old" tech but.....

    The other pause in my action - don't shoot me... yet - I want to see what Panasonic brings out in the FF biz, I suspect the video side will be larger (not my thing) but the feature set for stills will be up there as well (though Oly currently has that lead in 43rds).

    Such fun to speculate and I don't shoot enough to warrant any of this discussion really .



    I will be "adapting" my glass regardless,
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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Busted Knuckles View Post
    My week has been high distracting. My ponders on the new "R" goes something like this.
    If you were not in the market for a 5D IV the R shouldn't be the one your in the market for either. It is speced out close to the 5D IV, without the mirror.

    The R isn't the one that replaces a 1D or a 5Ds R.

    If I bought one it would be just because, and I had some money to burn.
    With the daughter starting college, a son having another baby next week and needing help with a car and helping another daughter build her house I am burning all the cash I need to.

    So I am waiting on the high mp version that can replace the 5Ds R.
    I think it will be several more years before we see a version of the R that can replace the 1Dx II.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by HDNitehawk View Post
    If you were not in the market for a 5D IV ....
    Pretty much agree, I am hopeful that Canon makes an up market version. My next camera buy will not have a mirror. Unless I get some sort of monster deal on a 5dsr.

    Update:
    Read the specs in detail in the side by side that Bryan put together. Wow, HDN you are so right, it is a 5dIV just w/o a mirror.

    IF IF IF I were to do a body upgrade it would be the 5DsR. Perhaps Canon will do something further "up market" soon - for once I would like to see the video features stay about the same and the stills features step up - pushing up the FPS w/ AF would be my 1st suggestion.

    I think Canon priced this one correctly, this will be a popular camera.

    All the best.
    Last edited by Busted Knuckles; 09-09-2018 at 06:40 PM.
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  5. #25
    Super Moderator Kayaker72's Avatar
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    I am planning on using the 5DIV for a number of more years, but if I start doing a few true photography excursions, there will be times when a two body system will make sense. I've also been curious about the high MP camera bodies and if I would appreciate the increased resolutions as others seem to. But a high MP body doesn't make sense for me as my primary body as I simply shoot very much that requires the high MP. Thus, for a second body, I've been mulling over hypothetical 5DsR II or 7DIII (for wildlife).

    So, the rumor has always been that Canon was working on two mirrorless camera's: one consumer and one "professional." My general assumption has been that the R is the consumer version, but the reality could be the opposite.

    If the R was the professional version, which I have a hard time concluding, but then we'll see a ~$1,600 FF mirrorless camera. Maybe 24 MPs? It is odd to think that this is possible, but the R does have a number of professional features.

    Assuming that the R was the consumer entry, I was thinking about what would entice me and came up with the following:

    • 60 MP FF sensor with 24 MP crop mode (building off the pixel size of the 24 MP APS-C sensors Canon is using)
    • 5 fps in FF mode (base of 300 MB/s) and 12 fps in crop mode (base of 288 MB/s).
    • True RAW, but sRAW or mRAW where file sizes are 25-40 MB per shot.
    • Two card slots. Never had a failure, but I do like the feature.
    • Battery life in the 600-800 shots per charge range.


    That is assuming DPAF can be found to be fast enough for wildlife, I am impressed enough with the EVF, and good weather sealing. But, that would essentially fit my needs of a second body, and if sRAW was really in the 25-40 MB range, maybe even my primary body.

    We'll see what Canon comes up with. I've been fine shooting with a single camera, or on very rare occasions, pulling out my M3 or G7x II as a second body. But, if I start doing photo excursions, I can see a second body.
    Last edited by Kayaker72; 09-10-2018 at 12:37 PM.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kayaker72 View Post
    I am planning on using the 5DIV for a number of more years, but if I start doing a few true photography excursions, there will be times when a two body system will make sense. I've also been curious about the high MP camera bodies and if I would appreciate the increased resolutions as others seem to. But a high MP body doesn't make sense for me as my primary body as I simply shoot very much that requires the high MP. Thus, for a second body, I've been mulling over hypothetical 5DsR II or 7DIII (for wildlife).

    So, the rumor has always been that Canon was working on two mirrorless camera's: one consumer and one "professional." My general assumption has been that the R is the consumer version, but the reality could be the opposite.

    If the R was the professional version, which I have a hard time concluding, but then we'll see a ~$1,600 FF mirrorless camera. Maybe 24 MPs? It is odd to think that this is possible, but the R does have a number of professional features.

    Assuming that the R was the consumer entry, I was thinking about what would entice me and came up with the following:

    • 60 MP FF sensor with 24 MP crop mode (building off the pixel size of the 24 MP APS-C sensors Canon is using)
    • 5 fps in FF mode (base of 300 MB/s) and 12 fps in crop mode (base of 288 MB/s).
    • True RAW, but sRAW or mRAW where file sizes are 25-40 MB per shot.
    • Two card slots. Never had a failure, but I do like the feature.
    • Battery life in the 600-800 shots per charge range.


    That is assuming DPAF can be found to be fast enough for wildlife, I am impressed enough with the EVF, and good weather sealing. But, that would essentially fit my needs of a second body, and if sRAW was really in the 25-40 MB range, maybe even my primary body.

    We'll see what Canon comes up with. I've been fine shooting with a single camera, or on very rare occasions, pulling out my M3 or G7x II as a second body. But, if I start doing photo excursions, I can see a second body.
    This mornings article on CR, CANON considers the R to be a 5D IV class camera. There will be higher MP bodies coming.


    Will there be a 5Ds R and 7D III release?
    The 5Ds R II release might be severely cannibalized by the release of a high MP R.
    We shall see.

  7. #27
    Super Moderator Kayaker72's Avatar
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    A bit of an odd exchange, really a leading question:

    Question: EOS R, is it positively an EOS 5D class camera?
    Response: I believe so.


    That statement could have been a lot more definitive in a lot of ways. "We designed the EOS R to be a mirrorless 5DIV" for starters.

    As Mike and you have both noted, no doubt it has a very similar sensor to the 5DIV and the DR pulled from some initial DNG files make it seem like the performance is essentially a 5DIV level. On an IQ level, sure. But I would still want to hear more about AF performance, weather sealing, etc before thinking it is 5D level. I already know FPS (unless improved with firmware) is below the 5DIV when using AF between shots.

    As for a high resolution, that is exactly what I am thinking: the follow up to the 5DsR could easily be a high MP EOS R. There really is not much of a reason to have it be a DSLR. Of course, Canon would be about sales and if both bodies will sell, I expect to see both.

    My list still stands for me to be interested. I could also easily see picking up an old 5DsR as it is being phased out if not.

  8. #28
    Super Moderator Kayaker72's Avatar
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    So, not to keep going on about the R, but I have been waiting on more detailed pre-reviews than just the night of release that we saw a plethera of. First one came out:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tU2xjMMbPkc

    Jarid Polin is a Nikon shooter and really doesn't do much to hide his bias. So, for him to be pleasantly surprised is something. Again hearing about how good the R feels in hand. Overall, the R seems like a real winner, especially at the price point.

    I will also say, I am entertained by all the references (here and in other places) to how similar the R is to a DSLR.....so, just use a DSLR

    That said, the video of the video from the EVF does make it look nice. Toggling between a FF and APS-C mode in an EVF would be a nice feature.

    But, this is still a step down from my 5DIV, as far as I am concerned. A better body, few more features and something else that I do not current have will be necessary to get people like me to convert. So, I am interested in the lenses only available in RF. Otherwise, I am years away.


    With that in mind, I really want to know more about the 400/600 III vs the 400/600 II. Will we see a replacement to my newly purchased (and quickly becoming loved) 500 II?

    The MTF charts of the new lenses actually are lower than the older versions. Canon did modify their presentation of the MTF chart (like they weren't confusing enough), but there is a significant drop, so unless they modified their method as well, there could be a price paid in IQ for the lower weight.

  9. #29
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    Canon has told a few vendors they are modifying the MTF's. Since version II was at almost 1 maybe they thought it necessary to modify so the new RF line can show improvement over older excellent models.

    Once you see the right MTF's the new lens is near identical.
    Last edited by HDNitehawk; 09-10-2018 at 06:53 PM.

  10. #30
    Senior Member Dave Throgmartin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HDNitehawk View Post
    This mornings article on CR, CANON considers the R to be a 5D IV class camera. There will be higher MP bodies coming.


    Will there be a 5Ds R and 7D III release?
    The 5Ds R II release might be severely cannibalized by the release of a high MP R.
    We shall see.
    I think Canon worries too much about cannibalization, but they are still clearly #1. It's probably just petty jealousy because I'm not willing to open up my wallet wide enough to get "the good features".

    If I were them I would worry more about Sony. They are on their generation 3 full frame cameras which is a healthy head start over Canon and Nikon.

    Dave

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