RF, EOS R and new Tele Lenses

[Kayaker72]

I am planning on using the 5DIV for a number of more years, but if I start doing a few true photography excursions, there will be times when a two body system will make sense. I've also been curious about the high MP camera bodies and if I would appreciate the increased resolutions as others seem to. But a high MP body doesn't make sense for me as my primary body as I simply shoot very much that requires the high MP. Thus, for a second body, I've been mulling over hypothetical 5DsR II or 7DIII (for wildlife).

So, the rumor has always been that Canon was working on two mirrorless camera's: one consumer and one "professional." My general assumption has been that the R is the consumer version, but the reality could be the opposite.

If the R was the professional version, which I have a hard time concluding, but then we'll see a ~$1,600 FF mirrorless camera. Maybe 24 MPs? It is odd to think that this is possible, but the R does have a number of professional features.

Assuming that the R was the consumer entry, I was thinking about what would entice me and came up with the following:

• 60 MP FF sensor with 24 MP crop mode (building off the pixel size of the 24 MP APS-C sensors Canon is using)
• 5 fps in FF mode (base of 300 MB/s) and 12 fps in crop mode (base of 288 MB/s).
• True RAW, but sRAW or mRAW where file sizes are 25-40 MB per shot.
• Two card slots. Never had a failure, but I do like the feature.
• Battery life in the 600-800 shots per charge range.

That is assuming DPAF can be found to be fast enough for wildlife, I am impressed enough with the EVF, and good weather sealing. But, that would essentially fit my needs of a second body, and if sRAW was really in the 25-40 MB range, maybe even my primary body.

We'll see what Canon comes up with. I've been fine shooting with a single camera, or on very rare occasions, pulling out my M3 or G7x II as a second body. But, if I start doing photo excursions, I can see a second body.

[HDNitehawk]

I am planning on using the 5DIV for a number of more years, but if I start doing a few true photography excursions, there will be times when a two body system will make sense. I've also been curious about the high MP camera bodies and if I would appreciate the increased resolutions as others seem to. But a high MP body doesn't make sense for me as my primary body as I simply shoot very much that requires the high MP. Thus, for a second body, I've been mulling over hypothetical 5DsR II or 7DIII (for wildlife).

So, the rumor has always been that Canon was working on two mirrorless camera's: one consumer and one "professional." My general assumption has been that the R is the consumer version, but the reality could be the opposite.

If the R was the professional version, which I have a hard time concluding, but then we'll see a ~$1,600 FF mirrorless camera. Maybe 24 MPs? It is odd to think that this is possible, but the R does have a number of professional features.

Assuming that the R was the consumer entry, I was thinking about what would entice me and came up with the following:

• 60 MP FF sensor with 24 MP crop mode (building off the pixel size of the 24 MP APS-C sensors Canon is using)
• 5 fps in FF mode (base of 300 MB/s) and 12 fps in crop mode (base of 288 MB/s).
• True RAW, but sRAW or mRAW where file sizes are 25-40 MB per shot.
• Two card slots. Never had a failure, but I do like the feature.
• Battery life in the 600-800 shots per charge range.

That is assuming DPAF can be found to be fast enough for wildlife, I am impressed enough with the EVF, and good weather sealing. But, that would essentially fit my needs of a second body, and if sRAW was really in the 25-40 MB range, maybe even my primary body.

We'll see what Canon comes up with. I've been fine shooting with a single camera, or on very rare occasions, pulling out my M3 or G7x II as a second body. But, if I start doing photo excursions, I can see a second body.

This mornings article on CR, CANON considers the R to be a 5D IV class camera. There will be higher MP bodies coming.


Will there be a 5Ds R and 7D III release?
The 5Ds R II release might be severely cannibalized by the release of a high MP R.
We shall see.

[Dave Throgmartin]

This mornings article on CR, CANON considers the R to be a 5D IV class camera. There will be higher MP bodies coming.


Will there be a 5Ds R and 7D III release?
The 5Ds R II release might be severely cannibalized by the release of a high MP R.
We shall see.

I think Canon worries too much about cannibalization, but they are still clearly #1. It's probably just petty jealousy because I'm not willing to open up my wallet wide enough to get "the good features".

If I were them I would worry more about Sony. They are on their generation 3 full frame cameras which is a healthy head start over Canon and Nikon.

Dave

[Kayaker72]

Canon has told a few vendors they are modifying the MTF's. Since version II was at almost 1 maybe they thought it necessary to modify so the new RF line can show improvement over older excellent models.

Once you see the right MTF's the new lens is near identical.

That is really weird. Canon Japan has changed (updated) the Mk II MTFs whereas Canon USA has the old (what I am used to MTFs) for the 600 Mk II but the new MTF style for the 600 MK III.

When you click on the "how to read the MTF," it still links you to a 2013 article regarding the old MTFs.

Just comparing the new MTFs....these new RF lenses (24-105, 28-70, and, to a lessor extent, 35 mm...no MTF on the 50 mm) are very impressive compared to the new MTFs of the 400/600.

I think Canon worries too much about cannibalization, but they are still clearly #1. It's probably just petty jealousy because I'm not willing to open up my wallet wide enough to get "the good features".

If I were them I would worry more about Sony. They are on their generation 3 full frame cameras which is a healthy head start over Canon and Nikon.

Dave

Which "good features" are you looking into? If you want something, a common strategy is to buy previous 1-2 generations. If you want all the new features, yep, most any company is going to make you pay.

I have a good friend, buys luxury cars that are being returned from their lease. It is brilliant. He just picked up a $65k, 1 yr old Infiniti with 8k miles for about 60% of the original price.

The quick response would be that I think Sony is the one that needs to worry now that Canon, Nikon and likely Pentax are all entering the FF MILC market. It is just never good to have 3 well established companies enter your niche.

A bit more detailed analysis, I believe Sony has become a legitimate 3rd camera manufacturer. But, personally, I massively dislike their camera in hand, EVF, and menu system (general ergonomics) whenever I have picked one up. Also, I was looking at their recent financials in an article. They are a conglomerate that is actually forecasting selling fewer cameras (3.8M) in FY2018 than in FY2017 (4.4M). Their "imaging" group is 155B yen of a 1,858B yen company and is the smallest their 8 named divisions.

In short, Sony seems committed to their camera system, but I always worry that they may bolt once they have extracted the desired revenue from this market or if the market suddenly shifts on them when a disruption happens like 3 established companies suddenly competing with them.

Last quick thought, Sony knows electronics and does electronics well. They bought Konica/Minolta who knew lenses. But most of their innovations seems to be on the electronics side, which isn't surprising as that is their base. Canon/Nikon are camera body/lens companies (historically). Now that they have entered MILC market, I think that history and base will be reflected in their products.

[Dave Throgmartin]

Which "good features" are you looking into?

My comment was probably a blowing off steam type of thing... has been a bit of a rough patch recently on a personal level.

However, in my opinion Canon does choose to product differentiate on some odds things. The 5D Mark II and 6D only have one reliable autofocus point. The 6DII has a sensor that does not appear terribly competitive in 2018 (although the wife bought one anyway).

If you want a full frame camera with competent autofocus AND a modern sensor for a DSLR you have to buy the 5D IV at a minimum. That said, they do have the refurbished lens program which can be a substantial savings. They also have the largest used gear market, again allowing substantial savings.

Nikon and Sony do not seem to have quite the same approach towards product differentiation although they have their other faults.

Dave