Flash Battery durability

[EdN]

I have a 580 EX Speedlite and I use Everready NiMH rechargeable batteries with it. I just went out with a fully charged battery set and was able to shoot only around 20 fill-in flashes with it before they died. The batteries are relatively new and I have 3 sets of them. I roughly get equivalent performance from all of them. I also have 2 chargers, one is a quick charger and the other takes around 8-10 hours for a full recharge.


This morning's shooting was in cold conditions around 30F or -1C.


Just wonder if this is typical with other users or do I have defective stuff. Any suggestions would be appreciated.


I use to use nicads with my Speedlite 199A and got great durability.

[peety3]

I have (essentially) four 580EX IIs. When I started with them, I used the Impact (perhaps B&H store brand?) AA NiMH rechargeables. Great power at 2900mAh, but newer batches seemed to go downhill in quality FAST. Some of the newer ones were duds right out of the carton, others went dead within a few charges. Since then, I've noticed that they leak down, as many NiMH batteries reportedly do. I can't say any have died as quickly as yours. I have about 10 sets of those.


I recently got six sets of the Sanyo "Eneloop" batteries. Lower power at 2000mAh, but reportedly no leakdown. So far, they've definitely been VERY impressive.


Regardless, I have the La Crosse BC-900 battery charger. Unless I'm seriously pressed for time, I always charge at 200mA; I suspect that's a big reason that all of my batteries have done as well as they have. I normally mark each set with an ID, and keep that set together through use and recharging.

[EdN]

peety3:

Thanks for your comments. I think mine were bad to start with or just died. I have 3 sets which I never mix. I don't think I've charged each of them more than a dozen times.

This morning, I thought I'd do a test by pulling out a set of nicads and going to repeat what I did the other day. I got at least 60 shots out of them which was typical in the past. When they ran out I put in a set of NiMH and got about 3 shots. Yes THREE shots only.

I think I'll have to find my other sets of nicads for the short term and look for a better brand of rechargeable AA's.

[peety3]

Ouch. My charger shows me battery voltage when I first insert the battery. My Impact batteries are almost always at 1.20-1.25V, but some that sat too long in window 'candles' or in flashes have been in the low 1.1V range. However, some of the newer Impact batteries, either right out of the box or a few cycles later, have been showing up as -null-, which is the same as 'no battery'. That battery is officially dead then. :(

[SupraSonic]

i used SONY 2700amh it last 250 shots back up energizer E2 this will last 220++ shots

[Keith B]

I use Energizer E2 2500 in mine. Shooting at 1/1 inside of a soft box I probably get 80-100 shots out of it. I have a high speed charger that charges them in 15-20 minutes. I have about 32 in my bag for my 3 light system, two 580ex2s and one 430ex. In the 430 they last longer and if I use the the 580s at lower power they last substantially longer.

[peety3]

I use Energizer E2 2500 in mine. Shooting at 1/1 inside of a soft box I probably get 80-100 shots out of it. I have a high speed charger that charges them in 15-20 minutes. I have about 32 in my bag for my 3 light system, two 580ex2s and one 430ex. In the 430 they last longer and if I use the the 580s at lower power they last substantially longer.
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I'd be VERY afraid of a rapid charger - I'd expect very short lifetime of batteries that way.

[Keith B]

"I'd be VERY afraid of a rapid charger - I'd expect very short lifetime of batteries that way."





I use the regular charger most of the time and just carry the high speed one in my bag for emergencies.

[40Doodle]

Glad to see this thread...it reminded me to get off the dime and order a rechargeable battery solution. I decided on this bundled solution (currently on-sale) from Thomas Distributing:


http://thomasdistributing.com/shop/la-crosse-bc900-battery-charger-w-lcd-displaybrincludes-8-sanyo-eneloop-batteriesbrdeluxe-travel-bag-accessory-kit-br-p-1015.html?SP_id=67&amp;osCsid=dk3iakq6ij0rf6lf01b84i0s o0 ("http://thomasdistributing.com/shop/la-crosse-bc900-battery-charger-w-lcd-displaybrincludes-8-sanyo-eneloop-batteriesbrdeluxe-travel-bag-accessory-kit-br-p-1015.html?SP_id=67&amp;osCsid=dk3iakq6ij0rf6lf01b84i0s o0)


Seemed like a good package with the charger and including the batteries for $58.


Rick

[peety3]

With 8 eneloops, it's a good price. I think it'd be $65 if purchased separately on Amazon.

[40Doodle]

I thought so too, especially in light of also getting 8 other batteries (in addition to the 8 Eneloops), the adapters for C&amp;D Cells and the travel bag.


Rick

[Ehcalum]

While I rarely use nicads in my flash (430ex and vivitar 385HV) they are usually good for a few 100 pops at full and more on manual. I primarly use a sealed lead acid external battery that I made based on The Black Box. TBB sells for around 100 or so and also has a smaller version, if your good with electronics, I can write up some instructions and a parts list for you to build your own. Ive shot weeks on a single charge and it also greatly increases the recycle time.

[ShutterbugJohan]

Don't NiMH batterys have a memory or something? I use 12 (4 at a time) of them in my 580EX II, and they seem to last shorter than they used to.

[Stephen Probert]

Peety, the milliamp-hours are a measure of the life of the battery, not the power....


But I am wondering if anyone has trouble with batteries not charging the flash capacitors right after you put them into the flash. I have the 430 EX II and some B&amp;H brand 2900 mAh NiMH batteries and sometimes when I put them in the flash right after a charge, the pilot light doesn't ever come on. The charger is slow but has cool features like independent charge displays and stuff, but I wonder if I have a couple dead batteries (I only have 8 total) or the charger says they are charged but they are not.


I shot a wedding and one set died right away and then the second set went for hundreds of shots. Anyone have this experience.

[peety3]

Peety, the milliamp-hours are a measure of the life of the battery, not the power....





Yes and no. If you want to chase some technicalities and/or grill me on semantics, I'm ready.


Regardless, I've had awful results with the B&amp;H/Impact 2900mAh batteries. Older ones arrived more consistent, newer ones arrived with some dead cells upon arrival. Over the 2+ years I've had them, they've continued to go downhill - significant variations in the amount of energy needed to return them to a full charge, and several additional cells have died.


Looking at the reason this thread started, my various comments come down to a common point: some brands are better than others, and if there's one or more bad batteries within a set, your flash might not work for long on that set. Using a rapid charger can have detrimental effects on your batteries. I recommend the La Crosse BC-700 chargers (cheaper than the BC-900, but I have two of each model) and the Sanyo Eneloop batteries (I have 48 of these and will be ordering more next month).

[EdN]

I was able to get Sanyo Eneloop batteries and a charger locally, at Costco surprisingly. Right out of the pack, I was able to take at least 150+ shots with my 580EX before I had to recharge. I am totally impressed compared to the Eveready NiMH that lasted only around 20 shots after a 9 hour charge. I'm currently running down the pre-charge on my second set of Eneloops and the first set is ready to go again.


Thanks for the great advice on the Eneloops.

[Daniel Browning]

I recently got six sets of the Sanyo "Eneloop" batteries. Lower power at 2000mAh, but reportedly no leakdown. So far, they've definitely been VERY impressive.


I second the Eneloops.

[Stephen Probert]

So I have Pearstone batteries and charger, I thought these were also B&amp;H brand, but maybe they are not. Anyone have trouble with these?


As far as technicalities: milliamp-hours are a unit of charge, how much energy the battery holds, but the battery disperses charge at the same rate (current, amps) assuming the same draw from the flash. Power is not the rate of charge dispersed, but the rate of energy dispersed (watts, or joules per second) but it is proportional to the square of the current, so it is also constant assuming the same flash settings. So the milliamp-hours doesn't tell you the power the battery puts out, but the life of the battery. Where batteries differ, I think, are in their voltages, depending on their chemical makeup, so when four are in series you may not get enough voltage. Semantics are important because someone should not try to buy a higher-life battery thinking it will charge their flash faster.

[peety3]

I guess the original "wave off" comment was too obscure. Lest I remind you that you've dredged up a thread that's been dormant for 4-5 months, my original post was from the days back before I knew Daniel Browning was on the forums, at which point we all had to be technically accurate down to the word or he'd come through and pick apart your posts. Not that he's often (if ever) wrong, but I've given up trying to split hairs because he's got skill in cosmetology as well as optics. I have a bachelor's degree in electrical engineering, and I didn't need your technical rendition above.


Except to say, different batteries have different internal resistance, and that influences how much current they can deliver to a particular load. I think we can all agree that a speedlite is a far different load than a flashlight, and therefore presents a dynamic load to the battery string. Those differences inside the batteries can change how much power the batteries can deliver to the flash, and therefore change how fast it recharges, though there's not necessarily a correlation with the battery's charge rating.