6D Announced (sort of)

[ham]

John:
I think you are probably correct, but I think their logic may be flawed. The probelm with targeting Rebel users is that they packaged all those Rebels with EF-S lenses. If they want to upgrade to a FF camera, then they need to unload their EF-S glass and start over. If you are going to push people to start over in there lens collection, then you better have a camera that out performs the compitition or you will drive them to the compitition. The way I look at the spec's, and I if needed to start over with new glass, then I would seriously be looking at Nikon to get better DR, AF, resolution, etc..

In the past when they designed decent upgrades for Rebel users (10D, 20D, 40D, 50D, 60D), they could still use their EF-S lenes... so it was still cheaper to maintain the Canon loyalty. And over time they would get a collection of better glass and eventually head towards FF if it suited them. This route to get Rebel users to jump to FF seems a bit risky and may force to jump to Nikon instead.

Thing is, if I'm a rebel user who's not serious at all, bought it because it's an expensive point and shoot, and have heard that I should have FF like the pros. Then I probably consider my EF-S lens as part of the camera, and I probably only have one.

If I'm going to upgrade, I'll be selling my kit bundled, and be buying a kit bundled. So unloading my EF-S glass is no more difficult than offloading the camera I'm upgrading from.

I'm a 60D owner, and I see no reason at all to upgrade to the 6D. If I needed/wanted to upgrade now, I'd go to Nikon.

[conropl]

Thing is, if I'm a rebel user who's not serious at all, bought it because it's an expensive point and shoot, and have heard that I should have FF like the pros. Then I probably consider my EF-S lens as part of the camera, and I probably only have one.

If I'm going to upgrade, I'll be selling my kit bundled, and be buying a kit bundled. So unloading my EF-S glass is no more difficult than offloading the camera I'm upgrading from.

I'm a 60D owner, and I see no reason at all to upgrade to the 6D. If I needed/wanted to upgrade now, I'd go to Nikon.

That's my point; but in addition, even serious Rebel or 60D shooters may have upgraded their lenses, but many still only have EF-S lenses such as the 17-55mm... an excellent lens that cannot be put on the FF camera. It is usually when they start getting "L" desease that they are hooked and stick with Canon. HDNitehawk is correct, in that they should be looking at the glass (bigger part of the investment and IQ), but there are a lot of people out there where it is all about the camera. I still find it amazing that there are a buch of people out there with very expensive equipment, and they have not gotten the dial off "P" mode.

Hey, "the grass is always greener...." right

[neuroanatomist]

I never use "P" mode since I'm not a "P"rofessional.

[ham]

That's my point; but in addition, even serious Rebel or 60D shooters may have upgraded their lenses, but many still only have EF-S lenses such as the 17-55mm... an excellent lens that cannot be put on the FF camera. It is usually when they start getting "L" desease that they are hooked and stick with Canon. HDNitehawk is correct, in that they should be looking at the glass (bigger part of the investment and IQ), but there are a lot of people out there where it is all about the camera. I still find it amazing that there are a buch of people out there with very expensive equipment, and they have not gotten the dial of "P" mode.

Hey, "the grass is always greener...." right

And my point is that I don't think this camera is targeted at anyone who's remotely serious. They'll grab a few, those who are serious, have picked up some of the cheaper L's and other EF lenses, and want a relatively inexpensive route to FF from a Rebel.

Anyone (IMO) with a camera above a Rebel, would probably be better waiting until they can afford a 5D3 or switch to Nikon.

Having just sold my 2nd lens. I'm left with a 60D and a 15-85mm. I'd be in an ideal position to jump to Nikon if I did want a FF camera.

[HDNitehawk]

I don't think you have to look far D600 vs D6.
Just compare the kit lens that comes with each to make your decision;

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/R...mp=3&APIComp=2

[HDNitehawk]

Look at it at 35mm if you want convincing. Make sure you are using the same aperture.

[HDNitehawk]

The short end of the Nikon is definitely the weak end. Good thing CA is easily removed, even if there is some loss of image detail. What lenses are the posted Nikon images for the new camera taken with? Might be a good way to find out which ones are better.

1Ds III's 21.2mp vs the D3x's 24.5 mp.

[conropl]

I never use "P" mode since I'm not a "P"rofessional.

I almost forgot about her. That brought a smile to my face... thank you for your wit.

[trav.cunningham]

Hello all! It has been a very long time since I have been on the forum, but I am excited to be back. Honestly, what brought me back was the 6D announcement. No necessarily the camera itself, but the new market segment.

So here is my two cents to add. I am a rebel user (T1i) and have learned and used regularly every function on the camera. I have three lenses but all on the cheap side. I am talking the next step in my photography but every photographer I talk to says to buy better glass. So that is what I am saving for and my first and probably all of my new glass will be L series. It will be later that I upgrade the body. While, like many of you I am disappointed with some of the specs but excited over-all.

Here are my thoughts:
1. Neither the 6D nor the D600 is impressive enough to make someone switch camps IMHO.
2. I think the the 7D mII will be focused on speed like the current model is. I'm guessing dual Digic 5+, better AF with more cross type points, and 10 FPS. Also, Better high speed video. I also think it could be more expensive than the 6D. I think the 7D and the 6D are going after different photographers.
3. I also think we could see the end of the xxD series and have a high level rebel take it's place and the EOS-M take the place of the low level rebels, but we will see.

Lastly, I think that the photographer is evolving. Cameras in phones are killing point-n-shoots, mirrorless will be purchased instead of entry level DSLRs, and that leaves only the series photographers to by the "expensive" cameras. There will be room left for a fully spec'ed rebel (like the T4i), an entry level FF (like the 6D), and entry level speed demon (like the 7D), a full featured FF (like the 5D mIII), and the ultimate Pro focused on speed (like the IDX).

I may be totally off, but there are my predictions. Don't flame me too bad

[Dave Throgmartin]

This camera is VERY unimpressive in my humble opinion and I think I'm pretty much their target market.

Canon's offering is completely non-competitive versus the D600. 6D = fail

Dave

Based off the posted specs, my comparison of 5D3 vs 6D vs D600

Resolution -- D600 wins with 24 MP versus 22 5D3 and 20 6D
Frame rate -- 5D3 6 per second, D600 5.5 and 6D 4.5
ISO capability -- Per posted samples on the net D600 is very competitive versus 5D3. 6D is an unknown.
Dynamic range -- Typically Nikon wins. I don't know that anyone knows for sure, but it is likely D600 wins this comparison.
Autofocus -- 5D3 61 points of world class AF, D600 39 points, and 6D 11 points.
Viewfinder -- 5D3 and D600 both 100%, 6D unknown but is likely less than 100%
Max shutter -- 5D3 1/8000, D600 1/4000, 6D unknown
Build -- 5D3 easily wins this, D600 still has partial magnesium alloy. 6D is noted as being "weather sealed" and APS-C sized, the construction is unknown
Micro focus adjust -- 5D3 has it, D600 has it, 6d unknown

5D3 is better than D600, but there isn't IMHO a huge difference per the above. For $1400 less the D600 is quite competitive. It is early but the D600 looks to be a substantial step up from the 6D. The frame rate is a bigger improvement from D600 to 6D than 5D3 to D600. Autofocus quality is a bigger improvement from D600 to 6D than 5D3 to D600 also.

Let me say I'm not trying to irritate anyone. The 5D3 is an outstanding camera. The 6D will be good as well, but... D600 appears to win the comparison easily versus it...

Dave

I was complaining quite a bit before... but now that I've had time to take a step back I think this camera could be very good if:

-- The high ISO performance is in the ballpark of the 5D3.
-- The -3 EV center autofocus point delivers as hoped.

There are some nice things here. Silent function could be useful in a number of circumstances. Wifi could be useful for tethered shooting along with sending images to other wireless gadgets.

Is the D600 better? Yeah, I think so. Does it have an EF mount to use excellent Canon lenses? No

Dave