T4i - Cheerleading Competitions

[HDNitehawk]

Here are a few suggestions to think about;

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/R...ns-Review.aspx

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/R...ns-Review.aspx

You can compare the lenses on the ISO charts on this site;

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/R...mp=4&APIComp=1

When comparing it is best if you keep the apertures the same and the focal length the same. As you stop down an aperture (make the number larger) lenses tend to get sharper as they move toward f/8 (a generalization that is close to accurate, a disclaimer put in for those that would point out such and such lens sweet spot is at f/5.6)

[Black_Dog]

cheermom,

I am an alumnus marching band parent and I spent the last six seasons following my kids around photographing them in poorly lighted stadiums, auditoriums, band halls and even a few gymnasiums. For a few seasons I used a Rebel XTi and last year I shot with a 60D, which is quite similar in operation to your new T4i.

I will second Rick’s suggestion that you use the Sport [running man icon] shooting mode on your T4i. The Sport mode does the following:

1. Chooses a fast shutter speed to freeze action and reduce the chance of blur caused by moving subjects (e.g. tumbling cheerleaders) or by photographer shaking the camera
2. Automatically selects an ISO between 100 and 6400. The higher ISO allows the camera to operate well in low-light environments.
3. Enables the camera’s predictive auto focus (AI Servo) that make focus adjustments to compensate for quickly moving subjects
4. Enables continuous shooting, so the camera will keep taking photos as long as you depress the shutter button
5. Automatically sets the camera to utilize only the center focus point (as another poster here advised you to do)
6. Meters from only the center portion of the viewfinder, which is where your subject is likely to be

As a beginner photographer, there is little advantage to attempting to use any of the camera’s manual settings when this Sport mode does pretty much everything that you would want to do in this setting.

I would not recommend that you use the Sport mode on your XTi at an indoor venue. While the XTi’s Sport mode is great in well-lit situations such as outdoors during daylight hours, the XTi’s Sport mode could only choose ISOs between 100-400. That means the T4i can amplify the available light up to 16 times more than the XTi, and therefore operate in much lower light. On the XTi, I would recommend that you shoot in [TV] or [M] mode, set your ISO to maximum (1600) and manually set your camera to do everything else on the list above that Sport mode does automatically. And even then, noise at 1600 ISO on an XTi was pretty gross. You’ll be much happier with the results from your T4i.

I’d also advise you not to worry about getting a new lens. Are the pro lenses better? Of course. But you should be able to get many excellent photos with the lenses that you have. I would just caution you not to zoom your 75-300mm lens all the way out to 300mm (maximum magnification). You will get better results if you are at 200-250mm and crop your photo down because:

1. Image quality at 300mm is quite soft
2. More light can get into your lens when it isn’t zoomed all the way out
3. It is easier to stabilize your lens when it isn’t zoomed all the way out, so there is less of a chance of blur

So put your camera into Sport mode and see how things turn out. I think you will be happy with the results.

[cheermom]

Wow! Yall are awesome and to say the least...I am thoroughly confused

That being said, let me ask you the camera I will be getting tomorrow should I return it and go for the 60D? I held both last night and my fear with the 60D is that it will get heavy after a while but I guess I could get used to that if it is going to take much better pictures than the T4i.

BlackDog - Thank you and I do believe I will go your route for this weekends competition and see how I do as it is really hard to digest all of the technical aspects of taking pictures - never realized it was this complicated.

Thanks again for all your help! Ya'll have been awesome!!

[Black_Dog]

Wow! Yall are awesome and to say the least...I am thoroughly confused

That being said, let me ask you the camera I will be getting tomorrow should I return it and go for the 60D? I held both last night and my fear with the 60D is that it will get heavy after a while but I guess I could get used to that if it is going to take much better pictures than the T4i.

BlackDog - Thank you and I do believe I will go your route for this weekends competition and see how I do as it is really hard to digest all of the technical aspects of taking pictures - never realized it was this complicated.

Thanks again for all your help! Ya'll have been awesome!!

Don't be confused. And don't get a 60D - your camera is great. Just use Sport mode and shoot away. It's really that simple. Everything else written here is way too much information for someone new to photography.

Bill

[HDNitehawk]

I think either camera would do fine.

You can go here for a side by side;

http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consum...01e02480551a5c

For the most part with Canon, as the price of the camera goes up so do the options they put in it. But with the consumer grade models they all have similar sensors and can produce similar quality. The 60D might have a bit of an edge in some features.

The fast primes that Neuro mentioned and I linked in my previous post will give you more of a bump up in Image Quality (IQ) and the ability to take action photos. The lenses were under $500 and they are not what would be called "Pro" grade.
Taking advantage of the increased quality of a lens could happen without aquiring the education required to digest what you have read in this post so far about ISO, aperture and shutter speed.

[Scott Stephen]

This sounds a little silly because it is so low-tech, but you will do a lot better by simply getting as close to the action as you can get.

It is tempting to stand off at a distance and just "zoom in", but it is better to be up close with a short lens at 50mm than far away zoomed all the way to 200 or 250 or whatever max zoom your lens has. Camera shake is multiplied by distance. If you are far away and you have zoomed in, you would need an even faster shutter speed to freeze motion and avoid blur, but in the dim light you are fighting to get a nice high shutter speed. You can pick up 2 stops of shutter speed (on non-moving things) just by walking it down from 200mm zoom to 50mm.

And if you can get up close, the suggestion of Neuro and others of getting a cheap WIDE aperature 50mm fixed (prime) lens would be great. The Canon 50mm f/1.8 is only like $110.00, and it lets you work in 1/4 the amount of light at 50mm than the kit lenses (like 18-55) can do at the same 50mm, and with better image quality too. If this cheap f/1.8 lens only needs 1/4 the light, that means you can use a 4x faster shutter speed, which is exactly what you need to "freeze motion" of your moving subjects.

And as for the ISO, I would not reccomend pushing it up to something high like ISO 6400. The pictures will be too grainy and colorless, at least if you are wanting a print much bigger than "wallet size" or maybe "facebook size". With a T4i you are better not venturing above ISO 400 or 800, really.

Good luck!

[cls]

Of course it's best to use lowest possible ISO, but for indoor action something like ISO 400 or 800 is out of the question. If you've got a fast prime and a well lit place you could get away with ISO 1600. I regularly use both ISO 3200 and 6400 (on 7D). Sure it looks bad zoomed in to 100% without noise reduction, but with some NR it looks OK for medium sized images and prints (up to letter size or so).

[Scott Stephen]

Of course it's best to use lowest possible ISO, but for indoor action something like ISO 400 or 800 is out of the question. If you've got a fast prime and a well lit place you could get away with ISO 1600. I regularly use both ISO 3200 and 6400 (on 7D). Sure it looks bad zoomed in to 100% without noise reduction, but with some NR it looks OK for medium sized images and prints (up to letter size or so).

Of course noise reduction also kills sharpness, so it has a trade off/downside. Also, I am not sure if the OP was expecting to get into learning post-processing software, though she would do well to pick up a software solution or two. I have seen a particular guy specifically working 7D images shot at 6400 (POTN and Cambridge in Color), and it looked OK, but it was fairly involved processing.

I have never been to a cheerleading competition, so I have no idea what is involved. CAN you get close enough to shoot with a 50mm lens? Is high sync flash an option, or do they keep you at such a distance that high sync flash would be too weak (or do they prohibit flash altogether)?

[erno james]

CHEERMOM, this is a GREAT question. Many of us hobbyists upgraded to DSLRs for this very reason: getting the best shots possible of our kids' activities. I've been shooting kids' sporting events for the past 3 yrs and will simplify what has been working for me.

1. Aperture Priority, AI Servo mode, speed burst settings (most images you can get per second). shoot in JPEG instead of RAW.
2. shoot wide open (lowest f-stop your lens will go). if close to the action, worthwhile to pick up the Canon 50mm f/1.8, or f/1/4.
3. crank up your ISO to whatever it takes to get a shutter speed of 1/1000 of a sec.
4. shoot tight
5. crop tighter
6. lean on the shutter button for peak action (in cheer, when somebody jumps for example), take at least 10 shots. you MAY get one keeper. don't be discouraged if focus was missed or you get 0/10 keepers.
7. i dont use flash as this can interfere with the atheletes and performers.
8. shoot lots and shoot often. during a volleyball tourney or kid's soccer game, taking 500+ action shots is fairly common

Most importantly, PLEASE POST some of your good and bad ones as we might be able to offer supports/suggestions. Best of luck out there to you and your kid. These are the times to enjoy. Erno James

Canon 50mm f/1.4
[img]
Service by ernogy, on Flickr[/img]

Canon 135 mm f/2 lens
[img]
Your Serve by ernogy, on Flickr[/img]

[peety3]

CHEERMOM, this is a GREAT question. Many of us hobbyists upgraded to DSLRs for this very reason: getting the best shots possible of our kids' activities. I've been shooting kids' sporting events for the past 3 yrs and will simplify what has been working for me.

1. Aperture Priority, AI Servo mode, speed burst settings (most images you can get per second). shoot in JPEG instead of RAW.
2. shoot wide open (lowest f-stop your lens will go). if close to the action, worthwhile to pick up the Canon 50mm f/1.8, or f/1/4.
3. crank up your ISO to whatever it takes to get a shutter speed of 1/1000 of a sec.
4. shoot tight
5. crop tighter
6. lean on the shutter button for peak action (in cheer, when somebody jumps for example), take at least 10 shots. you MAY get one keeper. don't be discouraged if focus was missed or you get 0/10 keepers.
8. shoot lots and shoot often. during a volleyball tourney or kid's soccer game, taking 500+ action shots is fairly common

I'm finally catching up to these forums after months away, and I'm pleased that someone finally hit the nail on the head.

Shutter-priority (Tv) is super tricky, as you run the risk of requesting a shutter speed that's incapable of providing enough light in some situations with the ISO chosen. I'm a big believer in step 1+2 as shown here, and then set the ISO as high as you're willing to go (knowing that higher ISO means more noisy, grainy results).

Get the 85mm f/1.8 lens or the 50mm f/1.4 lens as soon as you can, based on which one is most useful for you. The bigger aperture is worth untold success with your photography: the 85/1.8 is at least two stops better than your 75-300 at 85mm, which means you can capture the same shot in 1/4th the time, so your subject will be ~4x crisper.

If you can't get one of those lenses right away, get as close as you can, then zoom your lens as wide as it'll go. Most consumer lenses, yours included, have wider apertures at wider zoom, which means faster shutter speeds. Yes, you'll have a wide shot, but you'll have a crisper shot, and you can crop it later.

Best of luck shooting!