T4i - Cheerleading Competitions

[cheermom]

Hey there...I am hoping someone can help me. I just purchased the T4i and am very excited as I have been shooting with an XTI and cannot get decent pictures of my daughter stunting. So..I was told that this camera should do the trick. I looked at the 60D, however, it was very big and felt uncomfortable in my hands.

So...could someone tell me what settings I should use where someone on the team will NOT come out blurry

I will have the stock lens, as well as a 28-135 IS lens that I used with my XTI as well as a 75-300 NON IS lens. Will any of these lenses work with my low light scenario?

I am a beginner and trying to learn the best way to use this camera

Thank you in advance

Bonnie

[Kombi]

Sorry I am not familiar with cheerleading competitions- Is this held primarily inside a gymnasium?
Neither of your lenses will be ideal for indoors without a flash.
however the 28-135 is will get you better picture handheld inside. Using a tripod the 75-300 might do.

It will really depend on lighting available.

As for Blurry participant-- are they all blurry or just person your trying to capture?
If all blurry camera was probably trying to keep shutter open to compensate for low light. If Blurr was on single subject try moving camera to match participant.

Number one thing to do is practice.

[HDNitehawk]

Hi Bonnie,

Beginners answer, turn the dial on top to the little running man. It is for sport and action. It is right after the mountain (landscape), flower (close ups) then the running guy.

For a longer answer and probably not the one you may be looking for, if you're in to setting the camera yourself, it is all about shutter speed to stop action. If you are shooting moving targets you will need a faster and faster shutter speed. Say 1/1000 or better. It is always a battle, especially indoors to keep enough shutter speed and the ISO low enough to not have noise. This answer could go on and on about which camera and lens you need settings to use etc....... If the longer answer is the one you are looking for let us know and we can elaborate. For indoor low light you would be looking at lenses with lower (wider) f stops, like a 70-200mm f/2.8.

Rick

[cheermom]

Thanks so much for the quick replies

Kombi - competitions are held in gymnasium type areas with low light. As far as blurriness...it is usually the one that is moving the most if that makes sense. So if someone is stunting in the background, the person tumbling is blurry or vice versa.

Rick - Thank you for the easy answer Let me ask you...is this camera better than the XTI or would I be fine with my XTI?

I know I have to practice, however, I want to try and make sure I have the correct settings to get the best possible pictures if at all possible.

Again, thanks for your help and any tips you have, please share

Have a super day!

Bonnie

[Kombi]

Thanks so much for the quick replies

Kombi - competitions are held in gymnasium type areas with low light. As far as blurriness...it is usually the one that is moving the most if that makes sense. So if someone is stunting in the background, the person tumbling is blurry or vice versa.

Rick - Thank you for the easy answer Let me ask you...is this camera better than the XTI or would I be fine with my XTI?

I know I have to practice, however, I want to try and make sure I have the correct settings to get the best possible pictures if at all possible.

Again, thanks for your help and any tips you have, please share

Have a super day!

Bonnie

The T4i is better in many many ways-- but it may not get less blurry pictures with your available lenses and light.

(on auto or a preset) Your camera will try and compensate for low light by adjusting iso and shutter speed to get the exposure just right.

Exposure bar is circled in red in image below- when indicator is at 0 exposure is balanced towards + overexposed towards - under exposed

In daylight you will often see 100 iso selected (ideal sharpest image)
in low light you will see a larger iso value maybe 3200 or higher to compensate (image could look grainy)
Your T4i will be able to take clearer pictures at higher iso than your Xti

For shutter speed
In daylight you may see something like 1/1250 (of a second)
and low light might be 2" (2 seconds)
I have a T2i - the greatest help has been the owners manual (lots of hints in there), this forum, and practice.

Experiment- set your camera to m and see how changing shutter speed affects image and changes iso

try taking pictures around the house or in similar light to gym (maybe indoor mall?)

for now the action mode may be best bet.

But I found getting to understand (even a little) what my camera was doing helped me get better pictures.
started learning about my camera February- and I still don't have a solid grasp on all it's potential.

[DavidEccleston]

You should be able raise the ISO higher than the XTI, to take a picture in lower light, but other than that they're fairly identical.

As for settings, heres a few things to do:

Set the focus point to just the center point. It's the most accurate, and you'll know where you're focusing.

If the kids are moving towards or away from the camera often, put the camera is AI Servo mode. This tells the camera to keep refocusing. If you keep the focus point on the kid with the shutter button half-pressed, the camera will attempt to keep them in focus. When in this mode, if you don't half-press first the camera will happily shoot pictures before it's got focus, so make sure you half-press and keep the kid under the focus point. In one-shot mode, if the kids move between you first getting focus and taking the picture, the kid may be blurry due to being outside of the depth of field (the range of distances that are in focus).

To combat motion blur, you want a fast shutter speed. Put the camera in Tv mode (you select shutter speed and ISO, camera selects aperture). Turn the dial until you get a shutter speed fast enough. For fast moving dogs I need 1250 or more. If the kids are doing fast flips and tumbles, like a gymnastic routine, you may need something as fast, or faster than that. If it's slower motion, perhaps as little as 500 would be enough. You will quickly get a feel for what's fast enough. You don't want to go too high though, because to compensate for a high shutter speed you'll need expensive lenses, or higher ISO values with more noise.

Next, press the ISO button, and turn it up fairly high (1600 or 3200). Compose a shot and half-press the shutter button so that the camera meters the scene (checks light levels and decides on an aperture for you). In the viewfinder, if you see the aperture number blinking, it means the camera thinks it needs an aperture wider than what your lens can do. You can try taking the shot anyway, but it may be dark. You can increase the ISO, which may introduce noise, but that's your only choice at the moment. If, in the viewfinder you see the aperture is narrow (larger f numbers, f/11, f/13), you've got light to spare. You can choose to either lower your ISO to reduce noise, or increase the shutter speed to avoid motion blur.

Now, after your first night (or a few nights) of trying this, you should get an idea of what shutter speeds you need, and whether your noise levels are acceptable. If the noise is too high at your lowest acceptable shutter speed, or you ran out of ISO settings to use, you'll need a faster lens, or more light (using a more powerful flash, like the 430 EX II)

What focal length (ie: 18mm, 55mm, 100mm, 200mm, 300mm) do you typically find yourself using. If you're often near 50mm, the Canon 50mm f/1.8 is a cheap lens that will let you work in lower light. As you move away from that magic 50mm though, things can get expensive for new lenses. Lenses with wide apertures have lower depth of field (less of the scene is in focus), so there's always the chance that you'll trade motion blur for out of focus blur. This is where the flash can help.

If you post a few shots after you've tried the above (AI Servo, high-ISO, Tv with a fast shutter speed), I'm sure we can figure out what your best options are.

[cheermom]

OK...any suggestions on a lens that will not be super expensive but decent quality? I was told this 28-135 would be an awesome lens but guess not Thanks!

[cls]

Hi, I regularly shoot indoor sports and I suppose cheerleading shooting is similar.

For a start I would say this is a rather tricky business, and you shouldn't expect brilliant results at the beginning. You will simply have to count on some trial & error.

One thing that would definitively help things out would be to shoot in RAW mode - that helps when improving the photos in post-processing. But when you say you're a beginner you may not want to jump into RAW editing at once. Then my advice would be to shoot RAW+JPEG. (So you do have the RAW files for the future even if you don't bother much about them for the moment.)

For the actual shooting I would recommend fully manual settings (the lighting is usually constant indoors even if it may be poor).

Set ISO to 6400 to start with, and set the aperture to f/5.6. (I suppose you have the kit lens and you don't want the aperture to change with zooming - then the easiest thing would be to set it to an aperture available at all focal lengths.)

Now it's time to set the shutter speed. Begin with 1/320 and adjust it until the images look properly exposed. Depending on the light you may be able to use ISO 3200, but I believe ISO 6400 is minimum at f/5.6. Where I shoot most of my indoor sports I typically use a setting like ISO3200, f/2.5, 1/800 sec (using EF 85 f/1.8 which is a great lens for indoor sports, and also not super expensive). If your location is similarly lit you would end up with something like ISO6400, f/5.6, 1/320 sec. 1/320 sec isn't really action stopping, but these settings may be a reasonable compromise using your camera/lens.

Another important thing if you prefer to shoot in JPEG mode is white balance. If you know how to set custom WB that's the best, but it would probably also be OK with fluorescent (provided that's how the place is lit) or even auto WB.

Good luck and keep on trying/learning!

[HDNitehawk]

OK...any suggestions on a lens that will not be super expensive but decent quality? I was told this 28-135 would be an awesome lens but guess not Thanks!

I think if you give some info like like budget and what lenght of lens you might get some decent suggestions.
I think what you would be looking for is an economical fast prime lens.

I knew when you asked the question you would get quit a few detailed explanations. Are you still shooting in one of the Auto modes or have you ventured out in to the TV / AV and M modes?

Also, we have given you suggestions about showing the stop action type of shot. Is any of the blurriness related to your auto focus not hitting?

[neuroanatomist]

Hi Bonnie, and welcome!

Honestly, while a T4i will be better than an XTi in terms of allowing you to use a higher ISO setting, it will still be on the edge of where you may want to be. I agree with cls and others that you'll likely need at least ISO 6400, although depending on the speed of movement, 1/320 s may not be enough. The 28-135mm is a decent lens, but it's main drawback for the uses you are talking about is it's relatively slow aperture. It's a variable aperture zoom, so at 28mm it's f/3.5, but by 38mm it's f/4, and by 85mm it's f/5.6. So, if you're using it at 85mm, an f/2.8 lens will let in 2 stops more light than the 28-135mm, which is the difference between 1/250 s and 1/1000 s shutter speed to stop motion, or ISO 6400 and ISO 1600 in terms of noise. The 85mm f/1.8 that cls mentions is just over a stop faster than f/2.8. But there's a trade-off, too - the wider the aperture, the shallower the depth of field - so, shooting at f/1.8 if your daughter is close may mean only part her face is in focus.

The shots below were taken in 'typical gymnasium lighting' meaning poor lighting. I was using a 70-200mm f/2.8 lens at f/2.8, and in order to get to 1/500 s shutter speed, I was using ISOs in the range of 8000 - 10000 (your XTi only goes to 1600, and while your T4i does go to 25600, it's going to be very noisy at that ISO setting). The camera I am using has a full frame sensor, so the image noise in the shots would be about 2 stops worse with your T4i (i.e. you'd have similar image noise at ISO 2000-2500 on your T4i).

In the first shot, 1/500 s was enough to freeze the motion, but that's at the top of the jump. With gravity doing it's job, 1/500 s in the second shot shows some motion blur - 1/1000 s would have been better (which is what Rick suggested above as a bottom end). That would mean ISO 20000 for that shot, and that's with an f/2.8 lens. Taking 'the same shot' with your T4i + 28-135, it would have been at 47mm and the wide open aperture would be f/4 - that would mean in the lighting I had, you'd need ISO 40000 to get 1/1000 s - beyond the capability of the T4i.

That's what I mean by 'on the edge'.

Now...I'm certainly not saying it can't be done. But...it's going to take a few things, IMO:

• A faster lens. The fastest zoom lens available is f/2.8, and those cost >$1000, so that probably means you should be considering a prime lens. The three that come to mind, and they're all 'affordable' (sadly, under $500 is what 'affordable' means in this context) are the EF 50mm f/1.4, the EF 85mm f/1.8, and the EF 100mm f/2. All are good - the decision comes down to the focal length that's best. Since you have a zoom lens that covers all three focal lengths, you can see which one would give you the framing you need for your daughter's events by setting the zoom to those focal lengths. Side note: if 50mm turns out to be the best focal length, you can try the EF 50mm f/1.8 II, which delivers good IQ for very low cost.
• Technique. As in the above examples, taking the shot at a different point in the action can mean a given shutter speed is fast enough or not. Watch the performances, get a feel for the right time to take the shot, and learn to anticipate that in relation to the shutter lag (delay between when you push the shutter button and when the image is actually taken).
• Creativity. Remember that you're shooting action - you don't have to use a fast enough shutter to freeze the action entirely. In particular, if your shutter is fast enough to freeze her face, and her arms and legs are a bit blurred, that conveys motion in the image, and can be a very pleasing result. Timing that right gets back to the point above.
• Shoot in RAW. Since you'll be using high ISO settings, there will be noise in the image. Converting those images to JPGs with the more powerful processor of your computer will do a better job at reducing the appearance of the noise than the processor in your camera.
• Practice. Lots of it. Your shots will improve!

Hope that helps!

--John

EDIT: Rick's question about autofocus is a good one. Assuming the stock lens is the 18-55mm (or the 18-135mm, for that matter), neither lens has a very fast AF motor. The 28-135mm actually focuses a bit faster than either of the T4i kit lenses. The prime lenses mentioned above (with the exception of the 50mm f/1.8 II) all have USM motors, which is the fastest type of AF motor.

Besides just the lens, there are settings choices as well - AI Servo mode is designed to track subject motion, and that may be something to try (if you aren't already).

If you post some shots, we may be able to help identify the problem. For example, in the second shot above, my daughter is blurred slightly due to subject motion (too slow a shutter speed), the balance beam she jumped from is in focus, the people in the background are out of focus because they are outside the depth of field for the shot. So, if the static elements in your shots that are at the same distance as your daughter are in focus, and she isn't, that's a shutter speed issue. But if neither her nor the still objects at the same distance are in focus, but something else in the image is in focus, that's missed focus on your subject. If nothing in the image is in focus, that could be camera shake, or could be missed focus. Etc.