Canon R3

[Fast Glass]

So everything that has been said really is not proving anything.

I know Chelsea switched systems all the time, she can't make up her mind. I'm talking about either people I know or encountered through social media.

Second, sales mean nothing on classifieds. Unless you know why they are selling. I can tell you that I have seen or commented on countless Canon and Nikon shooters switching systems. At least 100 probably more. It is a clear trend.

As far as evidence, this is way more than ancedotal. If I wanted to spend the time I could probably find hundreds if not thousands over a period of time of people switching. But I don't have that kind of time to scour classifieds of every corner of the interwebs and question everyone.

As far as what everyone else shoots influencing me, I never said anything of the sort. It's about market trends and being competitive and Sony has really pushed harder that anyone else with things like mirrorless, light and compact bodies, high resolutions, great dynamic range, being able to mount all kinds of lenses rather than limiting yourself to one ecosystem and much more. Things that Canon and Nikon have seen are successful and are playing catch up. I feel like Canon in particular only listens if it fits their idea of a camera but with Sony it pushes them to think outside their sometimes narrow viewpoints. Like low resolution, it's really just beyond me why they are so stubborn about it. It's just a narrow minded thought process.

[Kayaker72]

Sales and quantity of bodies sold is not a indication of the best camera. It may be an indication of how well a company markets, brand recognition or other factors.

So, hopefully it didn't come across as if I/we were trying to use sales numbers to determine which system was "best." Rather, my intent was to bring some numbers to the table in a discussion as to if people are migrating to Sony from Canon. While what Sony has done, going from zero to 2nd, is impressive, and Sony growing over the last 10 years is absolutely true. It is just over the same time, Canon's market share has increased and in the 2020 numbers, Canon maintains a strong market leadership position. So, while there may be individual cases of people leaving Canon for Sony, the numbers do not support some mass migration. Just the opposite, really.

As for "best"....it really is subjective. Starting with why do people like what they like? I mean, are you going to tell a guy that drives a truck that a Porche is better than his truck? I think we can talk about characteristics and what might be best for specific needs....but that is a different discussion.

[HDNitehawk]

So, hopefully it didn't come across as if I/we were trying to use sales numbers to determine which system was "best." Rather, my intent was to bring some numbers to the table in a discussion as to if people are migrating to Sony from Canon. While what Sony has done, going from zero to 2nd, is impressive, and Sony growing over the last 10 years is absolutely true. It is just over the same time, Canon's market share has increased and in the 2020 numbers, Canon maintains a strong market leadership position. So, while there may be individual cases of people leaving Canon for Sony, the numbers do not support some mass migration. Just the opposite, really.

As for "best"....it really is subjective. Starting with why do people like what they like? I mean, are you going to tell a guy that drives a truck that a Porche is better than his truck? I think we can talk about characteristics and what might be best for specific needs....but that is a different discussion.

You see the switch to Sony argument all the time. Sony is going to put Canon out of business. Canon crushes Sony.

Canon stated that the strong sales of the EOS R5 and R6 were one of the reasons for their success last year.

I don't think you can state from their numbers whether people are migrating to Sony or Not. It could just be that people are upgrading / switching to the RF system and that has created a surge in sales and at the same time some of those are moving to Sony. Possibly the numbers would be higher if there were none switching to Sony. The point is unless you see data from where the increase in Sony sales is coming from you do not know if there is any kind of migration or not. You can not reliable say there is a migration, or there is not.

If you look at Sony's sales for the first few quarters of the year sales for cameras is up substantially over the previous year. If you want the data you can go to the companies website earnings release and dig through the financials. You can peel the information you need to support a position either way.


Canon:

‘As for Imaging, the EOS R5 and EOS R6, which are highly competitive products, have maintained strong sales and have become the driving force behind business results, even one year after their launch."

[HDNitehawk]

As for "best"....it really is subjective. Starting with why do people like what they like? I mean, are you going to tell a guy that drives a truck that a Porche is better than his truck? I think we can talk about characteristics and what might be best for specific needs....but that is a different discussion.

A friend drives a 911 Turbo S and I drive a Raptor. The subject has never come up.

I think you analogy would be better if two people were debating Tesla's new Cybertruck vs Fords F-150 Lightning (a Ford vs Tesla debate). Personally I like the specs of the GMC Hummer EV Pickup, but have grown to dislike Government Motors GM. Which is "best" for a particular application?

[Kayaker72]

I feel like Canon in particular only listens if it fits their idea of a camera but with Sony it pushes them to think outside their sometimes narrow viewpoints.

I've always felt that Canon develops cameras specifically aimed at very specific core markets. The 1D lineup was aimed at professional photographers/sports photographers, the 5D lineup was aimed at Wedding/Event photographers, and the 6 lineup was positioned as a capable yet more cost effective camera for consumers and cost-conscience pros. Canon repeated has talked about their market surveys and working with these types of groups. It is very much a ground up construction of a camera that fits those needs of those specific core markets and then people that do not fit those markets are left to decide which camera works best for them.

Notice how Sony wasn't part of that description? I do not think Canon is following Sony. Rather the migration to mirrorless is an eventual outcome based on the simple fact that mirrorless is a lower cost construction (more automation, less moving parts, removing of certain parts, etc). Sony was able to see this and jump to mirrorless quickly. Canon and Nikon both continued their historic products as long as possible and are transitioning. What Sony and Nikon/Canon are doing have, IMO, little to do with each other, and much more to do which where they were in the market in ~2012-2015: established vs new to market.

.... I feel like Canon ..... Like low resolution, it's really just beyond me why they are so stubborn about it. It's just a narrow minded thought process.

Unless that is their target market for a specific camera and the lower resolution satisfies that market. Wedding photographer Taylor Jackson just did a bit on the R3. He sort of transitioned from Nikon to the R6 but seems all in on the R3....his section on resolution is titled "24 MP is perfect for me".

I do not mean to make this bigger than it is, but this is one of those topics where a number of people feeling strongly about a topic does not mean that there is not another group that feels completely differently. It's all good. Maybe Canon misses the boat for one or two of those groups. That is ok, as long as they satisfy enough groups to be a viable business.

This is just speculation based on recent history, but Nikon and Sony seem to be the companies trying to go after the high MP FF stills market. Fuji and Hasselblad for MF. For Canon, I actually think the R5's 45 MP is more about doing 8K video than stills.