Famous bird photographer shares an image and initial impression of the 7D II
http://www.birdsasart-blog.com
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Famous bird photographer shares an image and initial impression of the 7D II
http://www.birdsasart-blog.com
Arthur Morris's bird pic looked good. So far the sample pics I have seen I have not been impressed with. All seemed to be to dark in the shadows, they just felt underexposed.
I am looking forward to having one in hand to actually compare with.
It looked decent at iso 3200 at least for web presentation....the color looked a bit too purple to me but that was probably post processing. The noise looked very manageable.Quote:
Originally Posted by HDNitehawk
So far the samples I have seen the noise does look improved over the 7d.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joel Eade
i see the purple to, I wonder if that is what my eye has been picking up in other samples. A bit over saturated with purple would make the picture feel darker.
It looks like Arthur Morris has updated his image and impressions a little bit. The quote that got me is "...At ISO 400 image quality with the 7D II is on a par with 1D X and 5D III images. The image files feature natural, accurate colors."
Granted, a lot of cameras can take good pictures from ISO 100-400. But, that is still a good comparison.
Also, just incase someone missed it:
http://www.the-digital-picture.com/N...spx?News=11670
At first this sounded good but the more I thought about it is not much of a comment. In what context is it as good?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kayaker72
We could go back to the pixel density argument a few years ago. Then through the 1.4x vs the crop factor debate. Then the cropped FF picture vs the crop body debate.
Other than focal length limited situations the FF will rule IQ.
I think he may be referencing noise characteristics, color and contrast and probably nothing more (my guess).
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDNitehawk
Well, I think we all would have been rightfully skeptical had he said it was better than the 5DIII and 1DX. So the comment, for ISO 100-400, is an observation that is in the upper range that I would expect. While there are specific photos I took with the 7D where I would not be able to tell the difference between it and the 5DIII, but to be consistently as good, even in that ISO range, would be an IQ improvement, IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joel Eade
Thus far we have hands on observations from Kelby, B&H, and Morris. I am encouraged as each has said something about IQ improvements. But, until we have production models in the hands of Rick, Sean, and, especially, Bryan, they are just positive observations of beta models.
As to what he could have meant, I think Joel is probably right. Going with DXO, the 5DIII and 1DX outperform the 7D/70D by 1-2 stops in noise, color sensitivity, and tonal range. Low ISO DR is similar (within a half a stop EV), according to DXO, from ISO 100-400. But, if Canon has closed the gap in all of these a bit, good. Going back in this thread, if what Morris is observing relates to bringing some of the D series "magic" (analog amplification, color rendition, microcontrast, etc) to the 7DII. Then great.
We'll see. Overall, I am not expecting something revolutionary. I didn't watch all of Kelby's videos, but scrolled through enough to hear him call the 7DII "the best cropped sensor camera on the market by far" several times. If that is accurate, great. But the disclaimer of "cropped sensor camera" was obvious.
I still doubt I will get one. There is a chance that the 7DII will be part of the most cost effective way for me to get more reach (>400 mm). But I am most interested in seeing Canon produce great products, and watch any improvement made filter up into a 5DIV. Which, I still may not get. I was going through photos I shot of my niece yesterday and I am really not sure I need (maybe even want) more of anything from my camera. The photographer still needs work, but the camera, maybe not. Maybe an even better spread of the AF points as I like to put my subject in the side of the frame.
That would be great, those are big items. ISO Noise discussion is meaningless at those levels unless you are a DR nut who likes to underexpose.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kayaker72
The same statement Arthur Morris made could have been made with the 7D vs 5D or 1D IV. The big difference with the 7D was firmware, you had to PP more to get the 7D to those levels. Still the crop will never be able to bring the full range of IQ to the table as a FF will. To me ISO, DR, Resolution are just parts of the IQ package. There is also the abilities of the lens and the aperture. The DOF you can create with a FF. With the FF you have the complete palate of items to work with. With a crop you are limited.
Looking at this 7D II why wouldn't the reviewers rave. It appears to have almost all the features of the high end camera in a body that cost $1799. That's the best bargain I have seen from Canon.
The negatives of the original 7D and why I chose the 1D IV over it were;
AF the 1D IV was better, 98% hit rate compared to 90% with the 7D and 5D II.
AF it took to long to focus with the big tele's
The pictures were flat and I spent to much time PP to bring them up to 1D IV standards
Micro-contrast is better on the 1D IV
So far from the reviews it appears 2 out of 4 have improved.
Why I am looking at buying it;
$1799 is less than 12% of the cost of my super-tele equipment. It is an accessory and worth checking out.
Focal length limited situations.
I am tired of carrying all the weight.
I would not consider buying this body at all if I wanted it for the following;
Taking pictures of the family, the t5i is much more versatile with its flip screen.
Primary creative camera, its crop no way.
Video, maybe, but the flip screen is a huge benefit.
Maybe, but don't underestimate the importance of the customizability of Movie AF in the 7D Mark II. That feature, in particular, will be extremely valuable to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by HDNitehawk
The 70D doesn't allow you to customize how it performs in Movie AF mode. You can't choose for the AF to stay locked onto a subject and to transition more slowly from one subject to another. In my opinion, these features make the 7D Mark II a better tool for video. The results should allow the camera to produce shots much more like traditional focus pulls. And these features makes clean, natural-looking focusing while using a Glidecam possible.
I saw that feature and it looked very interesting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Setters
When I bought a digital body 6 years ago I was making a wildlife photography commitment. I almost decided to go video, I didn't realize I would have both options.
Previous bodies like the 5D II I found useless for video. To hard to use.
The wife has a t4i and I like using it for video. AF works better and is much smoother.
It would be nice if the 7D II is a bigger improvement.
Maybe I will do more video.
Some more hands on experience with beta models:
http://www.foto-buzz.com/index.php?s...type=fotoskool
http://www.popphoto.com/gear/2014/09...0mm-f4-do-lens
http://www.popphoto.com/gear/2014/10...pre-production
The above gallery has a few photos at ISO 16,000 and ISO 12,800. From what I am seeing Canon has cleaned up the low ISO noise and higher ISO seems pretty good for somewhere between ISO 1600 and ISO 3200. So about a 1 stop gain. I have been trying to think about what I am seeing, but it seems to me that even the higher ISOs compress a bit better than before.
Still, a cleaner low ISO (compared to the 7D) and ~1 stop gain (maybe less) are both pretty nice advances, IMO.
The other interesting bit of information from Andy Rouse's "rolling review" is that he claims the sensor is different from the 70D. We'll see. I'd rather be hearing that from people with their hands on the camera than otherwise.
Caveat that we still haven't seen RAW from production models still applies.
I don't have much to add, other than I got to shoot a pre-production model last week while attending the Peter Read Miller Sports Photography Workshop. It really is a baby 1Dx, and they're doing some unique things to bridge the feature gap. Amongst other things, the AF sensor seems to stretch across the entire imaging space of the (crop) sensor, though not not completely top to bottom. It was appropriately responsive, uniquely customzable, but of course still had that mid-grade feel and sound. Would I buy one? Doubtful, unless the ISO noise gains are better than reported.
More 7D II bird images, some at higher ISO as well
http://www.birdsasart-blog.com/
What I like about his images he is showing PP, most samples I have seen so far have been jpegs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joel Eade
Looking at his 100% and 200% crop it isn't that impressive. It looks just like the 7D in that it has quit a bit of headroom to PP.
I wonder how many Raw files he will sell at $5 each.
I'm just baffled that he can sell the raw files whatsoever. When we got to shoot the camera at the PRM workshop, they put a card in the slot and taped the door shut. We were told to shoot a selfie first, then shoot what we wanted, then shoot a blank frame. The next morning, they went through everything and stripped the EXIF data referencing the camera model. Obviously we're just "ordinary people" not "Canon Explorers of Light" like AM, but I'm still surprised he has the liberty to distribute the files whatsoever.Quote:
Originally Posted by HDNitehawk
That is sorta crazy....typical though...I don't believe he does much of anything that doesn't revolve around trying to generate revenue but I really admire his work and the blog is educational.Quote:
Originally Posted by HDNitehawk
He should include the finished version so people can see how their PP skills compare. That would give him another angle.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joel Eade
It appears he didn't miss the RAW file opportunity.
His work is great, my only fault with his reviews is that he is always selling. Because of that I always watch out for the bias.
Add me to the list of people who have pre-ordered the 7DII w/ 18-135 STM and 24-70f/4L. The 18-135 is for video use, so the fact that it's not perfectly sharp, or super fast, is acceptable. The 24-70 f/4L because it's $920 off when purchased with the 7DII. Why Canon is pushing the 24-70 with a crop body I don't understand, but my 1Ds2 will enjoy it's new toy, replacing the used, discontinued, 28-70 f/3.5-4.5.
You can blame Stuart's 70D high-ISO example shots for my order. I know I plan to. (Sorry Stuart ;) )
Comparison images with 7D II and 5D III with same lens from same distance.........
http://www.birdsasart-blog.com
That was enlightening. The results are very similar to what we found in the old 7D vs 5D II debate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joel Eade
I think with more comparisons you see more of the same.
A bit less noise with the 5D III and the 7D II just a bit sharper.
The deciding factor for me with the older version was the AF system.
My guess is that what we find with the 7D II is that in focal length limited situations that the 7D II will be equal to and possibly just a bit better than the FF bodies. Weight is a big difference making it a good option for my wildlife camera.
TDP forum....helping each other spend more money since 2005.... ;):pQuote:
Originally Posted by DavidEccleston
Congrats David.....The more I read, the more impressed I am.
This must be a Canadian thing, at least I didn't see that combo at B&H or Adorama.Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidEccleston
7D II shipping on October 30th.
I wouldn't hold your breath on this one. I have pre-ordered before.
I have pre-ordered at the local camera store and I have received my order two weeks before Adorama and B&H shipped the first batches.
http://www.the-digital-picture.com/N...spx?News=12718
Hopefully the 7D II isn't postponed for months like the 1D X. If anyone remembers the 1D X was announced before the 5D III and the 5D III beat it to the shelf.
Yup, it's a Canadian thing, plus I can register my pre-order and get some gift pack with a 7DII jacket, and a mini replica of Canon's first camera and some other things... but I give up my option to return the camera. I think I'm going to skip that part of the pre-order bonuses.Quote:
Originally Posted by HDNitehawk
Does anyone know if the 7D battery will work in the new 7DII? They have a similar designation, except for the N.
I've read elsewhere that the new N batteries are backward compatible in the 7D/6D/5DIII etc but the old ones don't work in the 7DIIQuote:
Originally Posted by shutterdown
From Canon USA's website:Quote:
Originally Posted by shutterdown
"Battery
1 Battery Pack LP-E6N (or LP-E6)
With AC Adapter Kit ACK-E6, AC power is possible,
With Battery Grip BG-E16, two battery packs (LP-E6N or LP-E6) can be used. Or six AA-/LR6 batteries can be used"
Located near the bottom of the webpage.
I've actually read it both ways online, but, to me, Canon is saying that you can use the LP-E6 battery with the 7DII.
i remember from one of the reviews someone said it it the same battery but higher milliamps for the new one.
Yeah, I was looking for the details....so far, I've only found this:Quote:
Originally Posted by sedwards
Availability
The EOS 7D Mark II Digital SLR camera is scheduled to be available through authorized Canon dealers in November 2014 for an estimated retail price of $1,799.00 for the body only and $2,149.00 bundled with an EF-S 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS STM lens. It will utilize a new LP-E6N lithium ion battery pack with increased storage capacity. The LP-E6N is fully compatible with the LC-E6 battery charger, which will be supplied as a standard item in all EOS 7D Mark II body only and zoom lens kits. Also scheduled to be available are the new optional Battery Grip BG-E16 and optional Wireless File Transmitter WFT-E7A Version 2, with shipping dates and estimated retail pricing to be announced at a later date. Both the EOS 7D Mark II camera and Battery Grip BG-E16 are backwards-compatible to the current LP-E6 lithium ion battery pack.
If it's of any relevance, LP-E4N batteries from a 1Dx are backward compatible in older LP-E4-enabled 1D cameras (1D3, 1D4, and 1Ds3), LP-E4 batteries work in a 1Dx (with albeit less capacity). Both batteries are compatible with both chargers (LC-E4 and LC-E4N), though there's a 10% capacity reduction in one or more combinations (can't remember which). I've had a couple of surprises where one of my LP-E4* batteries "woke up nearly dead" in one of my cameras, but I can't remember the exact combo and it has been infrequent (so not a trend).Quote:
Originally Posted by Haydn1971
The 7D II will accept the older LP-E6 batteries. The only difference in the new batteries is a slightly larger capacity.
Excellent. Thanks, everyone. That OEM N version is pricey. I'll be able to use what I have, til the 3rd party batteries show up. :)
FYI, I got a shipping notice. Looks like the revised Oct 30th date was the real deal. It was last seen by Canada Post, working it's way through Mississauga (Toronto essentially), at 5:30 Eastern, scheduled to arrive tomorrow morning.
Great. Looking forward to your impressions.....BTW, I was in Mississauga a couple of weeks ago. The locals I met with, without prompting, were very adamant that they were not Toronto. ;)
I called the local camera store today. They said they would start selling the 7D II tomorrow. However they are only selling the kits not body only.
So, I've only taken a couple test shots in the office, JPG only, with the 24-70mm f/4L IS, reviewed on camera... noise levels look awesome. I can see some mild chroma noise at ISO12800, but ACR should be able to fix it up no problem (whenever Adobe gets around to updating PS/LR). I should be able to post some images later tonight. I passed the camera off to Magda at lunch time, so there should be plenty of data. ;)
In the preview, Bryan mentioned not liking the new zoom controls during image review... I have to agree. I'll get used to it, but, ugh, WHY?!?
Brant, you know, most people who adamantly swear they aren't something, often are.
Per B&H the 7D II body only is scheduled to be received on 11-3-14 at their warehouse.
Ha! too true....Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidEccleston
My body will be arriving tomorrow. I was able to get them to upgrade me to free overnight to compete with Adorama. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by HDNitehawk